[Music] hi this is sheriff lamb for now County Sheriff and now we're back here where we talk about all things Pinal County and law enforcement in Pinal County and anything that has to do with Pinal County today we're in the Pinal County Jail and I've got some guests here for a small I'm going to introduce my co-host this is our chief Matt Edric he's here with us today and then that we've got too so when I first came into office you know I tried to look at all the different ways we could help people and especially in the jail and one of the things I quickly found was a veteran's program called Humvee the housing unit for military veterans and so we started that program back in I think October yes of last year and it's been a great program and we're fortunate enough today to have two of our veterans from the program with us want to give them your name my name is Chris we got Chris and David and Chris is a veteran of the army and David veteran of the Navy right okay so thank you guys for your service and this is a special week in this country or we honor our veterans and which is why we wanted to have you guys here today so today we're going to be talking a little about these two gentlemen their service in the military being veterans and we're gonna talk about the Humvee program so Chris let's start with you where you tell us where you're from and where are you so what you did in the army tell us about yourself well I was born in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania uh I was raised in Birmingham Alabama I went to the army I went all the 17 so you know when I was in there I was working on engines 91 Bravo I kind of like these engines so it's not my fault I'm a car yeah so now during your time in the army did you get deployed no sir how being um most of the veterans in here did but I didn't I wish I did there was me and another guy who didn't get deployed he was a kernel driver though I didn't have that luxury yeah most the Colonel's aren't driving around diesels are they although all the Humvees are diesel yes oh yeah the Humvees the the true transports and stuff like that so I'm basically like working on engines um I'm a grease monkey as they call it I'm sorry hey that's good so I did when you left the military did you get into the same line of work no sir I went to working dollars in a warehouse my brother got me a job there because he was like his boss like hiring veterans and most of the people that I worked with were veterans some of them Army Navy Marines I kind of liked doing that more often than not it was it's kind of hard because you know most people have attitude and trying to work with them and I'm like okay I don't I don't get them I don't get where am I supposed to do they're like hey talking to talking to the headphone you say the number they'll tell you what number to pick at a product so we basically supplied the whole East Coast dollar generals like three hundred and seven thousand products every night so how old are you I'm 25 okay so he's still young yes sir and how long were you in the army no three years 31 weeks but nobody's really you had it down almost to the hour huh almost this couldn't really put my finger on it much every time I tried to look like it the time we get fish back so it's like hey it is it what inspired you to go in the military my older brother he's 10 years older than me my mom my uncle my great-grand dad and my granddad were both in the army and like one was World War two and one was World War one so I have both of their flags and my mom she went into the military but she I don't know what happened there but something happened in my uncle was a Marine so now seeing all them going and then my older brother left me when I was a kid I was kind of mad at him I'm like why you have to leave and when he came back I was kind of I was happy because he was like hey look baby boy look good look at this and look at it I was like hey okay he got that's a medal right there he's like kid this is just my marksman this is when unit I was in right here and this is how I kinda inspired me more than anything and then seeing him as as well go to the base with him when he would go do his training and stuff seeing everybody around and everybody's like hey we're all friends and we're all cool so I kind of liked that it was I was a trouble youth as you would say so I kind of liked fight you know and I would get in trouble in talking to one of his sergeants he was like yeah I can I can use you so I see that a lot of a lot of kids from that the South area because there's a lot of military bases around there you get a lot more millet people getting into the military they're used to seeing or they have family that's been in the military you don't see it as much out here on the west coast you know I you don't run into as many we don't what do we have a military base in Fort Huachuca and then we've got one out in Ulan you know Luke we got an Air Force Base off it that's what I've seen is there's get a lot more folks from the south of the East joining the military which is great tell us a little bit about yourself my name's I was in the u.s. Navy I'm a Persian Gulf War vet a national service defense at all for Gulf War let's see I was at damage Controlman which is a shipboard fire fighter and then I specialized in chemical biological and Radiological warfare you got too close to the gas when you were in there right that was something that we that we did that - same awful times oh it was actually in my school or the classroom it's a gas gas gas canister so now when you got into that when you were a kid did you know you wanted to be in the military actually you know when I was kid I wanted to be a firefighter which is I think why I chose damage Controlman from the Navy because they they control all the damage that occurs this ship to keep it battle ready and so that's what I that was my specific job so I I was able to live out that dream as a firefighter at the Navy and then because at the time we were in the Gulf War and they need people to volunteer for a special warfare department and I part of my schooling was chemical biological and Radiological warfare well thank you for your service - I mean I one of the really home yeah I don't have a lot of regrets in life but I was the one regret I do have was not serving in the military and I always wanted to serve in the military as a kid I got home from serving a mission from my church of 93 and I there was nothing going on I had talked to some guys that were serving they said I we don't really do much newspaper work if we're not now that we're not at war and I just started a family and never did it but it's the one regret I do have so I have the same regret when you guys were in when you first join the military how did you guys feel about yourself like we're talking like as you got off the bus at boot camp and then when your parents came or your family came to watch you graduate tell me about like your transition I was I joined when I was 17 so I don't actually I dropped out of high school and I was ready to join the military I was in the Army ROTC all through high school and so I knew I wanted to go into the military I and I knew that I wanted to go in at Navy because I had some friends that no offence kritis which they've joined the army and they got stuck at like Fort Leonard Wood Missouri and I wanted to see the world so I knew that maybe it was one surefire way to put me on a boat to someplace else and I have to travel so I knew I wanted to join I got into the Navy and when I stepped off that bus in boot camp I was you know I was kind of prepared for the drill and ceremony portion of it because of the ROTC and then I would say when my parents came I mean I was as I was super proud I was ready to I was ready to go out and be battle ready and join the fleet you know it was that the first time in your adult life that you felt really proud of accomplished something that mattered right yeah yeah definitely that and then you know just being I'm a plane going around board the USS Gonzales so I helped build that ship at the Bath Iron Works and we were the first crew to take over possession of it from the civilian contractors and do all the sea trials or from the day that that ship was said the q was saying it was pushed into the water you know that I was part of it that's so cool did you go to Fort Betty yeah do you want me to talk about when I first get the basic just tell us about like when you you had your start date and they told you you need to be here at this date this time and then when you when you saw your parents and everybody at your graduation oh man when I first got off the bus on effort I hate Fort Jackson when I first got off the bus I was looking like hey it's not gonna be that bad if they because they were like yeah go to the defect eat all you want you can have all that all the cake cookies and everything and then that they came when they told us to get we had to dress up and get on the bus and the drill sergeants came out and it all changed cuz I was like ooh my one drill sergeant Joe siren tavola he was not he was no joke he was like six seven a good 250 and I'm looking at him like I'm six-two and like a buck 30 and he just snatched me up and threw me on the bus and I'm like okay sat down get off I was not ready for the shark tank they they saw and everything soon as we get off the bus they swarmed everybody and I'm not gonna my head one battle buddy he kind of dropped his bag and they they swarmed him so bad it was I was scared I thought they were I couldn't scene for a while all I seen was the heads and fingers and you know I love the shark tank cause I think that anybody listening can I get a visual of all these sharks just attacking this little piece of meat and it was it was it was fun though because I was so used to my brother always being like come on babe we about to do push-ups okay come on baby would like to go to the park and do some pull-ups okay we're about to run around because East Lake Park is like three miles around so he's like we're about to run around like 4 times you have to catch me and I'm a kid so I can't kiss my older brother that lets you take off running and I'm like maybe a hundred yards behind beam and he's still turning around and running backwards but when I did graduate basic I was happy because it was my grandma and my wife and my my son there and my XE and I was like the first thing I did when I looked up into the stands and seen every when I seen them I see my wife first of my heart just jumped out my chest and I'll say here like yes she still has the video over me i basic and everything some see him like yes yes yes I did it come come on I did it my Carmen was sick and she she wasn't supposed to leave from Alabama but she did anyway she was like I have to I had to see you graduate and I was like that's cool it's really cool hello and you got a history at your family of military so but I mean anytime you accomplish something but going through basic training what do they say how many percent it's 4% of the population serves in the military I think it might even be less than that so yeah we were to top 1% there's a part you should be proud of that that time it's and the reason why I ask those questions is is my goal is to return everybody who enters this specific pod the Humvee unit to that version of yourself I want you guys to be proud of yourselves I want you to feel good about yourself because you are Sheriff lamin eyes neighbor truly you're our neighbor you can move in right next door to us there's no reason why you couldn't and I want to love my neighbor I want to honor my neighbor but how proud I am to have military people who call me a friend who I associated with and so I thank you for making the attempt to become the best version of yourself the sheriff chief Hendrick brings up a good point we're here to talk a little bit about the Humvee program today so that's the housing unit for military veterans so for anybody listening obviously we're in the jail and both of you were in here not on your own free will right now get into that if you don't want to get in that I really want to focus more on what the Humvee program is for those people because I go out and I talk a lot about it in the community and people love it but nobody ever gets to hear from the guys that are actually in the program so what did you think when you first got in here and heard about the program did they tell you right with you were booked in they didn't when oh I heard about it when I was downstairs and an age unit and people are like Yeti you know some people might talk good about it they're like is for military veterans and some people are like oh no it's not if they're doing this this net but when I got up here especially when David came up here and he was like yeah you you're gonna like it because this we claimed seven o'clock in the morning we get everything straightened out we make sure we do our PT in the morning and everything and then when I came up here when he came back downstairs and got me and brought me up here I was like man it's it's real quiet and this this is the first person I've met right here that's it makes to me this the first guy I met so when we started talking he was like yeah it's a actually what unit I came from I told him he was like hey I was down there did you need this person this person this person I'm like yeah also I caught on I think I know you but I don't really and you kind of hit it off and he was explaining to me like hey we have the book cart we can we have the ping-pong table we can we're sitting right as soon as I came up here they were they were watching moving in there and it's like oh I'm kind of I'm looking at it like hey this is a new experience how many people are in here and I only seem like seven and I was like we get all this space in it that's why it's so well I think that everyone can you know you said about what brought us in here I think to everyone in a more general sense is here for pretty much the same reasons we all have issues with combat related post traumatic stress disorder those of us that were deployed those of us that weren't deployed there's still some PTSD that occurs even stateside with deed with the anxiety of possibly being deployed or or the loss of of guys that you did search for right right because you know I tell a lot of you I'm not a hero but I served with a lot of them you know I served with many guys at work and I still today you know and I think that we we are dealing with a an issue of not being able to coming out of the military in a state of hyper ability vigilance whereas some of us are still part of us are still at war yeah we deal with a lot of survivors grief we deal with a lot rage issues when our job is to visit violence on others and we're not violent by Nature there's damage that's done there's damage to our art core moral moral damage to us because we're not that type of person and yet we have to become that type of person and take on some of the characteristics of those people that we fight in order to survive and when we come back the military spends millions of dollars to train us but they don't necessarily spend that much to teach us how to become normal in a group setting or social setting when there's you know to reduce that hyper-vigilant state and so we self medicate me I mean I'm not afraid to admit I know what I have and I own it you know I I'd self medicated with alcohol I mean I'm you're one of the mill Holly because of what happened and did the alcohol lead to whatever crime did she alcoholism and and it made so I made some poor judgments sure sure did that and just not being able to deal with my issues of relationally with with other individuals you know you tend to fight more you tend to act out an aggressive ways more attendant and is that our fault not necessarily do we need counseling and help and therapy for it sure we do is incarceration the answer probably not as treatment probably so in this unit this unit since I when I came in in 2018 and this unit was offered it changed my perspective on things I realized that I first off I didn't know what programs where I was ashamed to but role and yeah I've never gotten VA benefits and I'm working with someone who comes in here and got me on that road and on that pathway to get my VA benefits I was ashamed you know maybe maybe dies like me that are combat trained but we're battle broken and you know and we deal with that at police work to where we're trained to do something but then we're it's also sometimes it is maybe a weakness to go and ask for help exactly and we're having to break through some barriers on law enforcement levels barriers that you guys have been working on trying to break through for a long time and you you said it perfect a lot of a lot of veterans are self-medicating one of the things that we tried to achieve here was bringing you into a quiet atmosphere because a lot of guys go from jail which is very noisy constant vigilance you have to look over your shoulder and then next thing you know BAM you're back out on the road and you're in a room all by yourself and your mind goes to work on you and we're trying to transition and we've got all these programs you feel like the programs and the Humvee you kind of touched on it but you feel like they've been beneficial to you know definitely we have mentors who come in here that do work through the Veterans Court program bill and Mike thing they come in here and they talk to us and they they try to help us understand like what's what's really going on how because they they are a Vietnam War veteran so they they can understand and like some other some of the other people we have come in here like we have two ladies come in here on Wednesday and they come in here to play cards with us and they're they kind of lighten up the situation because some days we'll we have we all have art like he said we have our different issues and you have our different mindsets and stuff and some of us don't really know how to express it we we kind of like that we like the fact that we have people that can take time out of their day to come in here and say hey how are y'all doing how are y'all feeling today okay well explain this to us how how did this part make you feel or they'll sit there and be like well we have different methods that you can try to at least relieve some of that stress that you have more your mind it's not it's not the fact that nobody else can forgive us or not the fact that God can't forgive us it's the fact that some of us can't forgive ourselves it's like he said it's a good point the hyper-vigilance it's bad for me to go into a mall or and the Walmart without feeling like people are looking at me and always out to get me in this bag because I have my kids and my wife with me and it's it doesn't make it any better because the first thing I'm thinking about is okay if something does happen where's the first exit that I can get my family out of here for and everything else I don't I won't care about myself as long as I get my family out and you can't enjoy the moment of life you can't be in that moment it makes at least it makes it hard to be in that moment yeah it makes it it makes it real difficult because we we have so much pent up I can't even say his pent-up hostility it's just the fact that they I can say that they train they pay millions of dollars to train us and not their first thing that they say is hey maybe take this medicine it might help you don't know but if it doesn't want to give you this one right here and I think that the programs that you've started in this I think that the programs that you've started in this facility from like Chris said the ladies that come in and help us really with the people to have social anxiety disorder from their from their PTSD you know they come in and they play cards with us meeting new people is hard for us learning the things and the games or we tend to be creatures of habit features of our training because that's what we fall back on you know you train until it becomes habit until it's a reflex response so getting us out like that I know that in any AAA or in a program in any program that is a substance abuse related program they talk about the 12 steps and the third step is your higher power you know I think that the fact you have a lot of ministry based from point man ministries and they're involved in other aspects of your programs with the court systems Mike sharp and Bill were ago are I think that that's great sinners to Saints program if Barry Wolfe like those guys you know sinners to Saints and very Wolfsburg is a great guy he comes in here on Tuesdays he would just left here before you guys arrived today and he so I think that bringing us in a close relationship with a higher power and that that that morality is has a lot to do with it just for me myself and then the other program we have a meditation specialist comes in does yoga with us teaches us how to thank you Father for that Yoga for you guys and fought it like crazy she swore it would be good these were nothing but good things when he comes in here he actually makes it better wake up in the morning and the first thing we can do we sit there and do our salute to our Sun Salutations that's what he calls it and then we'll probably do a couple more poses and then like sometimes he'll exes do we want to sit down and meditate or do we want to go into the straight program and sometimes will meditate and then go into the programming it's actually better because you started it calms us down for the rest of our day and then we going to a smooth sailing day job I tell you another program has just recently been started by the chaplain here at the jail is something like that so that is probably one of the most profound in all inclusive programs that that the county is you know has come in and offered and I wish I wish he had more time so we could do four of it at one time so it didn't take everybody says mate you know because some people are here for a shorter - 12 weeks and that's a great great program I mean it really teaches how to how to use that battle feel especially for us and I you know we were all warriors to begin with and it teaches the Warriors how to how to come off the battlefield as workers and go back to being a man in a family setting you know how to be a man and what I love about that is it takes those rules of engagement that you were trained in in the military and it transfers that hyper-aggressive you were predators you guys went out and sought out the enemy and the threat and you stopped them transitions into the mindset of I'm a I'm a warrior for God or I'm a warrior for my how are your powers and I must love my enemies I must love everybody I think that is truly pray for those who perceive I don't what a quote we're almost out of time but I downloaded a quote yesterday and it's [Music] honestly I don't have time to hate people who hate me because I'm too busy loving people who love me that's truly it I don't have time to date the people hate me because I'm too busy trying to love the people I love me so 35 seconds let's give each one of you anything that we can do different in the program to make this better you know there's disconnects and we've talked about them I'm gonna work I love this you know there's disconnects in every and everything that you try to do whenever you want to make change there's gonna be resistance in some areas to that change people aren't gonna see everything your way what it is is the ability and I think you have an impressive ability as far as I'm concerned I've seen you on other platforms outside of hearing we both and I think you have a very strong and unique capability to work with those people to get them to see things from your point of view that and you know I just think that when I get out I know I want to be one of the champions of this program and come back and we'd love to have be a part of this in a different role of course and I think that you know like Mahatma Gandhi said it best you have to be the jewel you wanted to see in the world yeah that's right excellent well he hit on every point he hit on every point the only thing it's like only I do want to be a champion coming out of program but I also want to how long like he said I want to come back and help people that's been in this predicament in this situation to be like hey I've actually said were useful where you're sitting that I'm this is my room right here and I was my bunk over there so look this is what we can do to help you and this is what was done to help me so just to help other people that are coming to the same situation so they won't make the same mistakes again anything you guys want to say to all the veterans out there dad if you're if you're currently out there and you're not getting the help that you need if you're feeling ashamed of reaching out to get that help if you don't know where to get that help from if you are in a pit of despair depression or addiction and you're in that situation that Chris and I were in if any of these vets that are in here we're in right before we would give it to help this way there's avenues other than this Humvee program to get that help and and just don't don't be ashamed don't be don't be afraid and you know know that you're only gonna make your family's life better your life better and the lives of those people that you interact with every day better by getting that help excellent vice and I've always said I'll take all the veterans that come into my Jail but I don't want any veterans in my Jail it's not that I just don't want I want to help veterans from getting to this point so any last words of advice we have to keep fighting basically you keep fighting don't don't let it get you down don't don't feel like there's nobody that's going to help you we're we're all here so you have people that's really going to support you good advice and I want to thank both of you thank you for being veterans you're serving this country happy veterans to all those veterans out there I know we've got several other veterans in here that weren't part of the show today but we appreciate all the service that you guys have done and yeah yeah I know everybody listening out there appreciates it too so you guys this week hopefully you can even in here enjoy the the fact that there is a lot of people across this country celebrating your service for to this country so any last words chief we love our veterans but the highest form of love is devotion so we're devoted to our veterans we're devoted to making you better well we went way over but I think it was a good show I miss you guys being on so god bless everybody and have a great week all right happy Veterans Day