Hi Rose. >> Yes. >> Hi. >> How are you? >> How are you? We're okay. We're here. I'm Tracy Wilhelm. Secretary of M. >> Gotcha. >> How are you? >> How are you? >> We can have Yeah, it's good for this one. Yeah, it's probably bigger. >> You guys can just have a seat. Yeah, you're good. You can have a seat bar. >> Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Lois. >> Oh, god. You're good. You're good. You're good. >> All right. >> She has a lot of stuff on her laptop. Do you want her to set that up or give her time to set that up? So, >> do whatever you need to do. >> Okay. >> Well, what do you need? I guess what do you need from us? Because then I can I zip John used. >> So, what um >> do you want me to do since I called it in? >> Yeah. Yeah. I have no idea what's going on. >> All right. So, um, >> I was told that they possibly might need the detectives. That's I have no idea any about anything else. >> Okay. Uh, we're on the board of Marlton Lakes Civic Association. Okay. >> You know, Lakes Development. Yep. >> Okay. So, um, uh, she's the she's the, uh, secretary and we're on the board. >> Okay. >> And it came to our attention, the president of the association, uh, came to our attention that there was some discrepancies in a debit card that she had access to buy, you know, paper towels, whatever. Okay. >> Okay. So, there was some discrepancies there and uh you know um our treasure our treasurer you know questioned her about them. We need receipts and what's going on with these things and uh comes to find out that she was um she said some of these things are fraud. I I didn't buy these on the credit card. And then Jen went to Home Depot and Walmart and got receipts and they they and they were sent to her house and then she returned them and took out the cash. >> Yeah. >> All right. So that was started our wheels spinning a little bit. >> Um and then >> we did the internal audit with everybody. >> Yeah. We did sort of an audit with all that. Came up with some numbers with that. And then uh then the other issue was she had access to a Beno account that she had set up for people to pay for events. like we have all kinds of, you know, activities in cornhole and you know, people were paying for things and it was easy way for people just to Venmo the money and what it was for to her, but it wasn't tied into her checking account. >> And so, um, that's what we said, well, what happened to all that money from all these events like it's not she sort of had a ledger that she had forged looked like it was coming in and coming out, but it wasn't coming in and coming out of any funds and it was coming into her checking account. um to the tune. That's about $8,000 of Vin Millicans. And then the other one of the other things is I think there's probably a couple more things uh was, you know, they'd have these um donation buckets at like events, you know, band would be there playing, you know, donate to whatever >> and um she always just took them and >> no, >> cash cash >> and and and there was never any, you know, and I had asked like, "Do you ever keep track like how much is here? Should we count it?" Whatever. No, no, no. It's okay. So, we don't even know if those things were put into the Venmo account. Like, we don't know where the cash from those came from. And we never questioned her, right? We always trusted her. It was great. Everything was great until it wasn't when we saw these try these debit card transactions. And then that started then, you know, those turned into this and then it turned into well, she's rented the boat house and the clubhouse, never paid and she's got lifeguards. Did people give her cash for the lifeguards? But then we paid for the lifeguard. >> Somebody gave her cash for to pay her dues and she never turned it in. So, >> you know, >> it's a lot of little fingers where it was going, but it, you know, everybody trusted her. She's grown up in that neighborhood and everybody and everybody just she's one >> mom. She has four kids. She's one of my very good friends. So, it's it's it's very hard to imagine that someone like that would do this, but it's all in front of us. >> Can I see this? >> I don't want to be here. But I feel like I have to be here. >> Tell me what would be helpful to see cuz then I'll pull up our Google Drive. >> Can I >> give them this? This is probably all you would actually need. It's this bottom page. >> Here's this is the Venmo transfers that came out of our Venmo account and went to her bank account. Um this is sort of we've read through them and that's >> He's our current vice president. I couldn't do this because I couldn't print it in time. But this is Venmo statement. >> What is What is her name? >> Actually transaction. >> Spell it. >> Capital O R >> I N that we have so far. >> Flake. F L A K E. >> Do you know her date of birth? >> Yeah. >> Um >> and she's the president. >> Yes. >> She's resigned. So >> when we Right. So when we did this, >> she know you guys are here. >> No. Officer, if you don't mind. Yeah. >> When did you guys originally notice? >> It's the 27th of January. I apologize for the date being wrong on her birthday. >> Um I I'm going to like I can't give you exact date, but it's been late. It was around 2 weeks ago. >> 7:12 around 712 7. >> So now what am I looking at? So these are Venmo standard transfers. So these are standard generic transfers from the Venmo account to a checking account, >> right? So what she provided to us, this came out during this debit card transactions. We asked her to provide us with a list of her transfers, but it's very hard to read and it's not like an official transaction list. It's sort of cut and pasted. And the documentation that she provided us for all of the receipts was cut and pastes. you could clearly see where stuff was put together. It had like wrong order numbers, but the total would equal. So, it was that all of these little things led us to here, led us to bigger things, and that's where we are here. So, this is what she provided to us. We don't know if it's correct for that, >> right? >> Habachi for Mike and Caroline Periano. Thank you. >> Right. So what what so this is >> so we had an event to raise money for something. Okay. We were raising money for something for the boat house or something a gaga pit. So we held this habachi fundraiser so people would pay Karen the money and then we she would pay for like the chef the band. She would go buy prizes, you know. It was like an and everyone trusted her. We didn't question her. Whatever. But this was for Marlton Leaks >> events that we held. They weren't, you know, we did not do them from the board like the board of trustees does them. This is our neighborhood event. So that's what this >> she provided this. >> She provided that. >> She provided this when? >> Last Wednesday, >> right? The day before she resigned. >> That was on Friday around 12:00 and then Friday evening she resigned. >> So she provided that on Friday and then resigned. >> After you guys brought this up to her >> after we asked her several times for it. I I have a a better >> Did she say why? Can you pull it up on your email? >> She didn't say why she resigned. >> Oh, she has a resation why she resigned. >> What did she say? Why she resigned >> there? I have all of it here. Um the resignation letter stated. >> I have all this broken out into all the things. I just can't get it off my Google Drive because I had a problem with my internet before I came here. I have literally it's broken down questions and whatever you need. But at the bottom, it'll show you the resignation says, "I will willingly and promptly sent over all the requested information needed to prove my innocence. I sent two checks in the mail yesterday to A&J. That's our property management company." Um, which we'll get to that too. Um, one of the lifeguards and or one for the lifeguards and one for the rentals that didn't show on the July statement. There is nothing more I can do at this point to defend myself. This entire matter has been very emotional, emotionally, and mentally draining for me and my family. witnessing it has become a very concern. I need to remove myself from this. I truly enjoy that's when so she says basically because of this she's >> what um what does she do for work? >> She says she runs a daycare out of her home. >> Runs a daycare out of her home. She struggling financially. >> Her husband lost his job for a little while right around when this started. >> What does he do? um he works for Conrail, but um I want to be as kind as possible because again, this was one of my very close friends, but it wasn't um it was a lifestyle, not necessarily a um >> in my opinion. Well, I I wouldn't even say that. I would just like I mean, but Okay. >> So, this is the stuff she provided, but it was copied and pasted. So, presumably she could have went in there and typed in whatever she wanted, >> right? And if we showed you some of the other things, you would know why. >> Is this what she provided also? >> No. Our this Joe, who's our vice president, went through each of these documents >> and wrote down the numbers just so we could get a total at the bottom. >> Okay. So, this is basically a summary provided by Joe of all of these things. >> Correct. only. No, just just the >> money taken out of my account give you that >> the money taken out >> of the Venmo. >> Yes, that she provided. So, we don't even know >> what's the Venmo username. Did she change it? >> No, I don't know. I just pulled it up. >> Oh, it's dash again. >> Why is it >> Do you guys have access to this Venmo? No, but I' I've donated money like this is this my daughter donated $5 to selling lemonade back to the community. >> I mean, we know it's hooked up to her checking account. How >> she's told us >> just when she set it up. So, >> I think to to answer your question, I that has never been provided, I don't think, to any of us. However, it does not go into the Marlton Lakes account. We can tell you that >> because you don't have a history of any of these >> because we have bank statements that do not show any deposits coming in from a Beno account. So, the only other reasonable expectation would be that this went to her account. >> Didn't she say that in somewhere? >> I mean, I'm not going to I don't I'm pretty sure she said in some email that it went in her account. >> Why would she Why? >> Because wasn't that in part of the documentation when she said this is not part of the Marlton Lakes. This is my money. >> So, the events is a committee. She ran the events committee. The MLCA board sponsors a $1,000 budget for the events committee. a year that covers Easter, Santa, and what was the third one? >> No, family fun day. Family fun day in the summer. >> Anything else is money raised through fundraising and to make other events happen. We have a ton of events over there. >> I guess at some point before I was on the board and I don't know if she >> I know exactly when it happened. We were doing a family fun day. We wanted to get a band so we said a lot everyone was like I'll chip in. I'll chip in. We all started chipping and we started a VMO account right then and there to pay for events like the over and above things we wanted for our events and since she was the events person she ran it there was no other but nobody else was involved in that >> essentially the money that goes into that was supposed to be strictly for donations for events. However, it's not the case because there was other things that were going in like ladies night that raised I don't know $1,800 for flooring in the clubhouse. So over the course of >> it was never donated back into Borlton Lakes budget. You know, they had an event to raise money for flooring for the new for the clubhouse. >> So how did it get paid for >> out of Moralton Lakes budget budget? >> Oh, but never went back into the budget. >> It never went back into the budget. This was for the extra things we wanted to do for the community and the clubhouse. >> So we're out. She the the whole association is out 8,200 bucks. >> Plus she has >> it's 11. I have if I can get you this sheet like this is that but I did that as well but I broke it out into what what each thing was. >> You see what I'm saying? Like all right food trucks came in at $3.99. At the bottom it shows them not transferred into a bank account so we don't have to other people within the community. >> I can't get it. >> And then over here this is uh some of the this is the debit card still missing transactions which I got to spread it out and fix a group. And then this is the um what is this one? That's the estimates for that. And this is like the rentals that didn't occur that well occurred and were not paid for. So the total amount at the end of the day came to that. There's different buckets of Yeah. Without the cash, without a very nice sheet to give you if I had my stuff to do it with. >> Do you want to download it on my zip drive? >> You can share that. Uh you can share that to the email too. >> Email mine or his wherever you >> send it. You send it to both of us. >> We weren't sure what to bring, right? So, we just thought we would do this. I have zip drives or what can we email you, whatever you saved it as Excel first. I want to correct it. Things are done through Venmo that are not part of our budget. Okay. So, things that are part of our budget, we we direct, we vote, and we we pay for contractors. >> Everything that was done that way was legitimate. >> If you go to three, it was done by voting. Everyone's involved >> and that's fine. So the the the fraud comes in with this Venmo >> and then you can email >> and with a debit card. So we have two debit cards. >> Okay, let me back up. We have two debit cards associated with our account to pay for big items like sand and doors. Sure. >> Things like that because if you spend your own money then you have to pay. >> Who's the debit card? >> It's one is in my name. Jacqueline Wilhelm. >> Spell it. >> J A Q. E L I N E. >> E L I N E. >> Wilhelm. W I L H E L M >> Your date of birth. >> Um so >> the debit card is with who? >> Closed now. With Who was it with? >> It was with uh CTI Bank. Is that what you're looking for? >> Yeah, CTI Bank. Sure. Got it. >> Do you have the card number? >> I do. I can give you a text message. >> Both memorized. Oh, yeah. Look. Is that it? You must have cut it up. >> And the name on the account is yours. >> Moralton. It's Does it say the A&J or Moralton Lakes? It's Moralton Lake Civic Association. Let me I can get you a text message of it or a picture of it. >> That's what it says on the card. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Right there. Actually, it says Tracy. That's my um middle name. That's my middle name. Jacqueline's my first name. Sorry. >> So, what happened with this? And so Ashley >> and that's the only card. >> No, there's another one. >> Okay. And there was fraud completed on this card because this card was >> Ashley Mitchio Burch. Ashley, >> do you have that card? I have everything. I >> have a list of Here's everybody that's on the board and their names on that. Yeah. Right. Tell her not listen. >> So card number two >> is CIT Bank. >> Yes. >> Or CTI. >> CTI. >> Do you have a that bank or the card? Mhm. >> And um this Karen has >> Oh, here's Ash. She's right there. It's right there. >> And Karen had Karen has both cards. >> She never had the card. She only had a picture because >> So she had I mean, which is as good as having card. >> Yes. And most of the things that she did were all online except for Home Depot. She actually went and read the numbers off the phone. And >> was she supposed to have this? >> We gave it to her like to order sand and to order a door, but we did not know that she was using it to make any other purchases. So, I will say the way this came to light is we got a bank statement and there was charges on there and Ashley the treasurer came to both of us and said, "Did you make these charges?" And she said, "No." And um actually she said maybe some. So she went through her like Walmart and Amazon and noticed how like sometimes it saves your defaults, your last payment as a default. So you might use it accidentally >> cuz that happened to me also. So I ended up having to pay $99 back, but I didn't even know like it was an accident. >> She had $5,600 of charges >> from her using the one card. So but they were never voted on. They were never approved. They were never nothing. they were just used and >> and we don't know on what. >> Yeah, we provided some receipts, but again, it's the cut and the paste, take a picture. It's not like an official transaction receipt. Like when I provided my receipt, the receipt was taped on a piece of paper. Like there's a list of all of the transactions that were suspected to be fraudulent. >> We do. >> That's what I need. >> And she did pay back, she claimed some of them were hers, and she did pay back the 1500 something, but some of them were like a Walmart grocery order, a couple of them, right? So she was like, "Oopsy, she identify mistake." >> Oh my gosh, that that's a mistake I made. You know, once she was confronted with him. >> Oh, yeah. Sure. Can I plug my lap? I'm sorry. It doesn't work. It was the battery charge. >> Can I email you this? >> What are you emailing me? >> Set the uh conversation. >> Um, this is pretty much everything. I just wanted to fix it, but you're going to wait now. How did we do it last time? >> Hey, either one works. If you look at that, it goes from start to finish from the email that we sent out asking the questions that we had to finalize the answers to. >> All right, let me just Should we walk through it together? Go and do that. Okay. >> All right. So, we realized that there's these transactions that have taken place. So, Ashley said, "Karen, you go get me your receipts for anything that's real. Anything that's not, we'll pay back. Tracy, and this is all separate. Tracy, you go do the same thing." So I came back the next day. Boom. Here's my stuff. Karine came back. Boom. And it was it was suspicious. Ashley had suspicions. So they did an audit and they had all the board members except Ashley, Tracy, and me and Karen participate to look at everything, verify it. And there was still questions. And there's still questions to this day. >> Maybe the other way is better. >> Yeah. Let me see how I did that. >> Share and export. >> No. Is it understatements? I'll send a copy. >> I saved it as a word document. >> Okay, gotcha. >> That's what I need to do. >> Jen, do you want to direct me to where this stuff is? >> Yeah, I'm going to send it to you right now so you can open it. That'll be easiest cuz now I'm switching it to a Word document so you're not going to be able to open it otherwise. Oh my god. Okay, so here's the charges. Can't be. Oh, cuz I'm offline. Oh, yeah. I hope so. >> There shouldn't be Wi-Fi here. >> Um, I like the guest. Yeah, fire. No, not fire. >> Should be down at the bottom. There should be no lock next to it. >> Public. >> Yeah, public. >> Trace, that's coming over to your email. And then except >> where's the first letter pop up? >> Sorry. R second one. And then his is you press J. >> All right. So, >> debit card. >> You did spell it wrong. >> Maybe I did. >> All right. This was the list of all the debit card charges. Sorry, there's no >> um that we were questioning. >> These are all the ones. >> These are all the ones that were used on Ashley's card and with O85. And these are the ones from mine. So, it started in um whatever that month is, March, and then it was all these charts. >> I need this. >> Okay, >> we might be able to get you a probably a more up to date. I want to check with Jen to make sure we get you up. >> Where's the writings? I can see I'll tell you. >> So, this was this everything march and green was like, okay. But we have another one that shows where she would say like for >> everything in green is okay. Yes. >> These two charge, just as an example, these two charges here, Karen said absolutely wasn't made. I didn't do it. We call we opened an investigation with Walmart. Walmart confirmed it was Karen Flake who made both of those charges and it was mailed to her house. Karen Flake last week told us in our final email, because we did a final email to her and our management company and say, "We just need clarification on these things. These two were on there." And she said, "They were not me. I did and do it and Walmart confirmed. So then we're like, what do we we >> Walmart confirmed she returned those items to the store, you know. So then she gets the cash back from the items. No, >> we don't know that. We know. We do know for 100% fact that was those two items were credited back to the account. However, the point of it is >> why we kept it on there was the intent behind it. She's still saying she didn't do it. And there's been an investigation open that said that there was two glass tables shipped to 11. >> So everything in green is okay. >> We have another one of these. Do you did you >> Is that Yes. Everything in green is okay. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And then every What's red? >> Those were my mistakes that I I accidentally like with it was saved on my card. So I just it defaulted to this. I've paid the management company back. >> And everything in white is fraudulent. Suspected fraudulent. >> No, we have this an updated sheet. This was this was just the most recent one I could find to give you an example of what we were doing. So, Jen, if you can help me. >> I'm trying to find it. I can't go any faster because I'm stressed. >> Okay. Really? >> All right. Trace, I sent it to you um on I can tell you the date. It's in your email. >> Okay. Unless it's it was the Sunday that we met. So that would have been >> that we met with the board. >> I'm sorry guys. >> This came up really quick. So that's why we didn't have like we didn't come here with a packet cuz it came up. so quick. >> I won't lie to you. I should have been. All right. That was so >> So, should I go to my email? Jen, what do you want me to do? >> I think that's probably the best place to find it right now because your folder is secret and I can't get to it. >> I don't know how to get to my own folder. >> So, I can't help you get to it if I don't know how to get to it. >> Um, >> if you scroll to the top and type your name in, you may >> Yes. And I I I know this. I'm just having like >> No, I got you. >> Thank you. No problem. >> Okay, now I'll find it. >> Ashley texted it to me today. >> I don't know that she has that one in there. >> Full details dot. >> No, that's the other one. I emailed them already. But that's the one. You can open that. That explains everything from start to finish, but not this detailed >> debit card on there. >> Not the details like that. Open it up and look that way. I'm looking at this cuz if not, I'm going to not be able to um do two things at once. This is that that just had all the list of all the different sections because as we found the first debit cards then we started looking at our rentals then we started looking at lifeguard hours and it it just became >> to what I need. >> Okay. >> Um and what would be super helpful for me. >> Okay. um is is a list of dates, a trans a transaction amount on which card, where it went, if it was memo, where it went, >> what every suspected fraudulent transaction. >> This is an example of one of the receipts that she gave us. >> So, the 4 A I I put on there to label them. I labeled each thing with each item because I'm like, anal with what I'm doing. You The basic trick to this is there's numbers on here of how many items are purchased and they don't match up. We've asked for full details and she like pretty much refused to give them over. >> She usually I work on HP all day. So when I switch to Mac, I'm like, "Oh my god, everything's backwards." >> That's fine. And and we do we do honestly have all of this. We just look like a bunch of retards right now. >> You have no idea how much time I've spent on this to be honest with you. Actually sick that I can't find it. >> Yeah. >> Oh, here we go. I got it. I got it. >> So, I can navigate to it. >> I I'm going to send it to you cuz I have no idea how to get to it. I'm not going to lose where it's at to get to it, though. >> We're super hightech over here in Mons. I'm just saying. Okay. I don't know how to take it all. That's why they're >> So, just so you know, sort of some of are the next steps. So, when we started realizing all this, we started seeing dollar amounts. Well, after we got the Venmo, we were like, whoa. So, Lois works >> worked retired. >> She's retired from the prosecutor's office from judiciary for 32 years in the courtroom every day. So, >> she's got a little experience. Yeah, I have a little experience with >> we've already talked to our attorney and we shared this information with him and we asked him what our option like what what should we do, right? Because we can't just not do anything. It's too much. It doesn't seem like much, but for our little association, it's a lot of money, right? >> Um, >> this was an option. Trying to work it out with her was an option. Going through her insurance was an option. And what was the fourth? >> Internal. >> Do an internal. internal civil. >> Oh, internal civil. Like we could sue her ourselves and there's no guarantee we get the money. We could try to work with her. Again, no guarantee we'll get the money. >> If she doesn't have the money, you're not going to uh you're not going to get the money. Right. >> Right. But we have fiduciary responsibilities. Right. So, that's kind of where we're I think that's what we're looking at this from. And our insurance, I don't think covers theft from a board member. So, I think we're out there. This was like our only option to maybe try to get it. So that's >> so this is actually something that we you would not you're not um >> there's no guarantee you're going to get your money back this process. This is criminal. So like explain that to them, >> right? We do obviously this would go if if uh all the probable cause is there and a judge finds reason to believe that the probable cause is sufficient to um sustain the allegations, right? And then this goes through the process. A judge could this either, you know, it's like either whatever in the amount that the fraud at $11,000 being like thirdderee crime. It's like either jail time or fines, penalties. Those fines and penalties aren't necessarily going to you guys. Those fines and penalties are going to go to the state. >> Um because we're the ones signing the complaint. Um and then um the the judge could make um >> restitution >> order restitution. >> Order order restitution. That is not something that um I can even talk on but that I have no idea. >> Most most >> I I trust you I've done thousands of cases like this from police to sentences to trials to you name it. Um, and you know, uh, every Friday in a sentencing courtroom, usually if there's theft, they order resitution. Sure. Through probation. You know, if they're going to jail, you're not getting probation. >> Yeah. We're not trying to lock her up, right? We just want the just put the money back and make it go away. >> Right. Um, >> yeah. We no longer have a say in that once it's in your hands. >> Correct. >> Right. If a judge thinks jail time >> and that's what the attorney said. So, that's kind of like we've tried to do our due diligence on the way. We've never accused her. We've just asked for clarity. Right. If you give us a receipt that doesn't look like a receipt, seven of us can't figure it out. We we have an issue with that, right? So that's that's how this all kind of >> So what am I looking at here? >> All right. So this is the full list of all of the transaction. Green is good. >> Blue is an oopsie that we paid back to our management company. >> So green's okay. >> And so is >> blue is okay. >> Yes, >> red is okay. Mistakes. >> What else? Yellow is um questionable. We don't >> leave my camera now. >> Just so I have a good picture of what you're asking for because Okay. I don't know how to work one of these computers. Just scroll. I got it. Like this. This is how I'll do it. I got Okay. So, like this one, right? What are you doing? >> I'm going to make it smaller. >> I No, it's okay. I just want to see like this one. the question at hand on 37. So the dates in there, right? This was one of the questions we sent to her. One 1693 you marked as fraud in your March breakdown. On 719, you provided a screenshot with seven items. Right? This one I actually believe to be okay. But you see, I put it all in here. Seven items. There's only one of these, one of these, and then there's no number of gift cards. I believe there's five. Because of our minutes, it it added up to make sense. So, I put comments after everything to say that. But who am I? I'm not I'm to I'm not qualified to do this. So, that's why I did it this way because I'm telling you what we still suspect and what we sent to her to question. Right. So, it's like 325. We'll skip that one until we got donations. But, >> do you have do you have statements from these credit cards? >> Yes. >> Companies. >> Well, we have from the Yeah, from the bank statements. We do. So maybe an easier way to even do this would be literally get copies of all these bank statements and literally just highlight which transactions were fraudulent. >> We did we that's on that you don't want the proof that she's already provided. >> So I mean I'll take everything right but what I mean so ready if she if she's stealing Lysol wipes verse Charmin paper towels I I don't really care. It's here's the amount on this date and where it went to Amazon. What specifically I mean for every little every date on here and and every little denomination of $280 she spent $3.47 on on a pack of gum. Well, it's like okay I I on this date here's the amount where to Amazon from what? Right. If that makes sense. >> So we'll we'll keep that on one sheet for you. Do you want the questionable ones or you want >> any things that we um know were fraudulent? >> I don't feel like I am entitled to say I know anything was fraudulent. Like I >> the ones that you suspect to be fraudulent. So So here's the other thing, right? I will not put in a probable cause statement ones that you guys can't say um what you are confident in >> the well whether it was fraudulent or not. >> Right. Does that make sense? does because that's what we were this is all the due diligence we were trying to do >> because we're going to have to prove that correct right and we're going to have to prove that through evidence so if we don't have if we have conflicting evidence if that goes to court you could probably explain this >> we'll lose >> you're going to lose that >> and it'll go against all of our credibility get it that's we get it >> I don't I don't get it I'm not going to lie I'm concerned I'm not like because I don't know how to justify the fact that she did provide something whether it's yeah there's 13.99 for Lysol At the end of the day, all these added up, right? So, so we're missing >> But they're cut and paste jobs. >> Hold on. Hold on. But who am I to say what is on the rest of this receipt that I don't have the rest of? Like, I don't want to say it is or isn't fraud. >> Right. So, if you have if you have a bank statement for CTI Bank and you have a charge on April 8th, 2024, um, and the amount is for $50, right? And you're only getting a receipt that's saying 1399 and, you know, 368 and whatever this is, and it adds up to $40. There's still $10 more dollars that nobody else >> right and that's exactly right >> completed the charge right to Amazon. So you want us to make >> the the only no the only way the only possible logical other explanation is a charge was made by somebody with access to the card and it was done on this date to this vendor via Amazon in this particular case >> um for this amount. Nobody else did it. You guys didn't do it. She's the only other one. She that that's good evidence, right? That's That's probable cause for me. >> Okay. >> That's what I need. So, >> one more piece. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> So, if you look like this was purchased like for the clubhouse and the boat house. >> So, like she's justifying this item as being purchased for the clubhouse cleaning. >> So, then this is she's justifying as the lights. So yes, this transaction is 3758, >> but that's not some of it was for the association. That's why I broke it off. That's why I'm concerned to say that we're not asking for >> I'll just say within the last year. >> Okay. >> And then I feel like I'm accusing say, you know what? Hey, on Monday, April 8th, $50 spent on Amazon. And you you put a little aster next to it for me. You say 45 out of the $50 here. >> Yeah, >> we're good. >> So now we have a difference of $5 here. And then give me that total. I need to know I need to know the date of a sus uh of a suspected fraudulent transaction. I need to know the vendor from which it came from. >> The amount >> which card it was put on. Mhm. >> Um, >> we have all that. I think if if we give you this >> and and what what amount is suspected to be fraudulent out of that, right? >> So, if we give you this and we we mark, you know, get rid of the color coding, right? And only give you fraudulent or questionable. >> I don't need to see good, >> right? Yeah. We're taking all that off, right? So, you'll probably just get something like this, right? And then we'll clean that up and we can say 45 of 50 or whatever the whatever. >> But I'm going to need a bank statement too. Okay. I need copies of official bank statements. >> Um this is good like this is good to help me understand but for for anything to have evidentiary is going to have to come from the bank. Right. >> And just the other category just quickly because you know I we'll provide all that too is just the um abuse of her position. what I would call abuse of her position that she uh rented the clubhouse and she didn't pay for it. Now, she's going to say we're entitled to one free one, but she rented it three times and it's like $500 each and she hired lifeguards and um she paid them through moral links fees instead of if you rent the clubhouse and you need lifeguards, you have to pay the lifeguards separately. Okay. But she she used Moralton Lakes funds to pay the lifeguards and put them in his hours they worked. So, so get a print out of those statements where that money comes from. Right. >> Because that's another big chunk of what she's done. That's >> provide me your Marlton Lake statements where the money is never put back in. Right. >> Right. >> Okay. >> I want to add a couple things. She's a signer on the bank account. So although the debit cards are issued to two different people, she's actually not a signer but has a debit card. Right. Weird. I think maybe not. I don't know. So, like I just I'm trying to figure out when this all comes out in a courtroom. >> She was a signer on I know, but he's asking for all these things. So, he should know that, right? She was a signer on the bank account. >> Yeah. Well, that's you know, >> her name wasn't on the credit cards. We didn't know. >> I'm aware of that. So, that >> I mean that's you're you're wondering what's going to happen down the road. That's a long way from >> Right. We just need to figure out how we're going to get you all. So, obviously we're super technology, you know, we got this all covered. But >> I understand what you're saying. You're saying her B her name is on it. So, it's like how can you it doesn't matter, right? So, if if I take the police department's credit card and I'm allowed to have it and they say, "Hey, we know uh Detective Merly that you have our credit card. We need you to go buy these things for uh this event." And I go and I take this credit card and I buy those things for that event. And I also go and I buy other things, right? >> Well, I'm allowed to have the credit card. People know I have the credit card. They know I'm spending the money. I'm not supposed to be buying these other things, right? >> I just want to >> that's that's so the fact that it's understood that I'm allowed to have it, the fact that her name is on the account doesn't necessarily matter. Is she allowed to commit, you know, fraud? Is she allowed to steal money from the association? Absolutely not. Right. That's that's the reason you're here. So, >> yeah. I'm just I don't like to like I'm so nervous to with the accusation situation and but you're going to determine what is legitimate and what's not. We're not accusing. We're just giving you or the Burlington County is >> No. So, you're you're going to provide me bank statements um and we're going to you're going to show me amounts, dates that those amounts were placed to which vendors and you're going to determine which uh out of all these >> internally we're determined. >> Yeah. Right. Because I I don't know. >> Yeah. See, this is where I'm this is where I in the call with the attorney yesterday, I think a lot of the board members would be very confused on this because they said if we were to take this to the police, the police would then give it to the prosecutor or the fraud unit in Burlington County and they would then determine they would I have it actually written out spelled out how he said it was going to go. He said it was going to be and you I mean >> well so I think we're talking about like forensic accounting. So for example, for one of our events, right? It was um she she charged Mars and Lakes $400 for the band, but it should have come out of the vent though. It should not have been charged at Mars and Lakes. So that's something that you know we like stumbled across, right? So should we be going through everything? >> Yes. Yeah. >> We need to do all that. >> He needs a list of everything. >> Yeah. Because if you just give me every transaction ever. >> I have no idea. I'm not a part of the association. I don't live there. I don't know what you guys do. >> I have no clue. You guys got to give me that evidence. You guys have to provide me that evidence. I how I don't know. >> You know what I mean? >> So once we do this though, will there be any additional investigating that happens or what we give you is it? >> No. So what happens is once you give me all that information that I need that's going to build my probable cause to sign a criminal complaint against her uh for the fraud. Um, I could do a few things at this point. I could do a interrogation. Um, and we sit down, we talk with that person, do polygraph. We if she's swearing up and down, she didn't do it. There's a million different investigative tools and tactics that the police department can do to elicit possibly a confession to support the evidence that we have or even if she wants to deny, deny, deny, deny, there's still the evidence that you guys provided, >> right? But and then that goes to a court to to determine whether or not they believe the evidence you provided is strong enough to uh convict this person. Right. So the the way this works is I think what I'm sensing is there's a little confusion in terms of this >> very uncomfortable because I don't want to be accusing someone of something and it's coming from the board and we're a lot of us are under the impression that we are handing this over and it's out of our hands >> and now we don't have it in the qu we don't have it in the order that he needs handed over to you. >> I don't know. >> I guess I'm struggling. I'm sorry. >> She's very good friends with her. So you know that's a struggle. It's a struggle. One of your >> In my mind, we've done our due diligence. Um, >> right. So, you can't So, I understand what you're saying. You can't um you if if if you were to come to me and say, "Here's all this evidence. We think she did this, figure it out." I would not be able to complete that investigation because I don't know what's legitimate and what's not. It's going to require significant work on your end to provide clarification of that evidence for me. My job is essentially to facilitate this complaint process, right, with the evidence you provide me. >> So once we get you that, then you will file the charges. It won't go to I guess we were thinking it was going to go to the prosecutor. No, >> he'll he'll do a complaint or a warrant for for so likely going to Yeah, it's not a probably not a warrant. Um potentially could I don't know her criminal I don't know. >> She has no criminal history. >> Sure. All right. So, right. So, um >> yeah, I can't guarantee what a judge will ultimately determine. Um it's a fourthderee crime uh or I'm sorry, third degree third degree crime. Uh but there's fraud elements that that might change the degree because it's for association. There's uh I'd have to look specifically, but that's unimportant really. Um right now you provide me the evidence that I need. I can sign the complaint. I will charge her with the crime. You guys are witnesses, right? You'll be listed as witnesses to the crime. Um, somebody has to represent the association and go to court, right? >> Oh, we still have to pay an attorney. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. >> We'll just be >> and Ashley will go because she's the treasurer and she's working. So, she could, but she, you know, she's the one that's going to be the witness cuz she's the treasurer, you know, has access to all the records and everything. >> She's not here. >> She's not here, right? >> There's there's nine there's eight of us, though. This isn't just the three of us. are the three that I have a flexible schedule that >> so you guys can designate you guys can tell me who you want to list as the primary witness like she's so nice and but that's what some people it is >> it's not she really had to work she wanted to be here I promise you she wanted to make sure she was here >> so are you saying that if as she doesn't join us in the beginning that she wouldn't be able to >> No I'm not saying that at all I I'm just going to It's somebody who's going to put a name. I got to put a name on the complaint, right? Like who's going to be my who's going to be my complainant? >> Yeah. And who's going to be the person >> or I'm sorry. I'm the complaint person and testify to the grand jury. And that's not MLCA. That's the grand I can't even think. It's not the association itself, the board of trustees as a whole. That would be that. >> It would be an individual. Who is that? >> Well, the nine people right here, the eight people that are listed. >> Yeah, but if they don't show up, >> they will. They would. It's this was like a last minute today. We're going to go do this before business day is over and half of them have jobs and >> Yeah. I I just need somebody who's going to be willing to represent your >> Okay, we'll just wait. We'll just >> Yeah. >> Um >> but you want us to figure everything out, get it to you in a spreadsheet form like this. Like so if we give you because there are different categories of where we saw fraud and this is potential fraud. This is just questionable things that stuck out in our mind, right? Like so that's why everything together makes it very suspicious, right? Looking at the paper towel receipt probably is not that suspicious. Who cares? But when you add everything together, right, >> it makes a difference, >> right? That's why I'm saying it's going to require a little bit of work on your end. If you were to give me all this, I don't know any of you. I don't know her. I don't know anything about what you guys really do, what you spend money on. So, if I'm looking at stuff, I have no clue. >> We'll give you some background context. >> It's supposed to even look fraudulent, right? >> Like, >> I have no idea. >> Okay. So, if we gave you a spreadsheet, I'm just trying to figure out how we can make it easy for you, right? So, if we gave you some sort of >> I can write it down for you, >> right? But if we gave it to you like this, like these are the credit card transactions. These are the Venmo accounts. This is this and like maybe one overall tab that said total, right?% it would be a Venmo. This this this boom. >> And I don't need good transactions. Um I don't need I don't need ones that um h well it could have been her. It could have been that might be good. Leave that out. >> Uh because again if it if you can't testify that it was that part of this transaction was theft, right? That's no good. >> It's no good. Right. So, again, I'm going to need and again, spreadsheets will be good to help me sort of itemize and sort of maybe formulate my police report, but at the same time, um I I I'm not necessarily sure that uh a judge or a court would would hear that without seeing official statements from your account um to show, right? Because you come in with a spreadsheet, >> I'm an attorney. I'm going to say, "Well, how do I know they just don't like her and they just made up all these?" >> Absolutely. and they built this Excel spreadsheet, right? So, I need some statements, right? >> All that stuff underlying. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, this is overwhelming for us. We don't do this. This isn't part of what we do, right? So, we were just like, we didn't know what's >> Yeah. No, I mean, this this this is good. This is good to help you guys sort of as a team determine the next steps, what's going on to sort of visualize what's going on here. Um but um again as far as like I'm concerned right now like I can't I can't charge anybody based on >> well there's a problem we can't get access to like a print out from the Venmo thing the Venmo account. >> Oh I could write a warrant for that. >> Okay. >> But in order to write a warrant for that I need other evidence that you need to provide me. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and that's so the money that went from the veno into her account that that 8,000 something total. We don't have her. >> So, what if she I'll write I'll write for all of that. >> But when I'm saying like when you're saying everything we hand you over should be things that we're confident is potentially fraud, right? She did transfer that into her account. Sure. >> Well, we can show one to say it didn't come into >> I know, but that's not my question. My question is if she pulled if she went and used the money from her account because a veno account you have to have connected to some bank account and went and bought I don't know I don't even know what to say something for the lake I can't even say say she for >> so then she can so that she can then provide those receipts as her defense. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Good. >> So it's so what we provide you we're not saying this is 100% because we don't I I can't be 100% on any of that. But you're 100% sure that >> that's a different >> that money came out of the MO again. We're 100% sure of that. >> Right. >> It did not go into >> I don't want to like defame someone who >> No, but you're 100% sure that >> money was taken out >> and never got put back in. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So regardless. >> Well, not until we get those in deposits. I want them too before we send that over. We don't know what's in those. >> But how are you going to get them, >> Mike? He's the only one that can get it. And that's the other thing. The association is so negligent. They didn't send us any of our bank statements, any of the stuff on time, which is why this went so long. And then they are the only ones, even though they're not she's no Karen and Ashley are signers. They can't call this CIT bank and get bank statements. Only Mike or Amanda from Association Adviserss can call there and get a bank statement. >> And we did request that. >> The problem is >> the problem is there's image deposits. That's what it says for random amounts. >> Is she Is she Is she suspected to be doing this by herself >> or is there somebody else involved here? >> It it would be really sus. It would be uh they're a company that you know vanishes. I would be very surprised if they >> there's negligence involved. They they're not all the time, but I I find it hard to believe, but I've seen other things in court, so I'm not going to say, but yeah, they have to give they have to give you those copies of those, you know, checks or depositive >> after this is sent to you. How long is it? When when does she get notified this? >> Well, he's not even sure. Like, you got to see what we're going to give you. Either way, once you get the paperwork, what's the Can you give me like ballpark what how this works time frame wise for her to find out that the police are now >> once I charge her? If if if you guys get provide evidence, sufficient evidence where I'm comfortable enough to put my name on a complaint, criminal complaint, and charge somebody for a crime. Um, she'll get notified via mail of a court date should it go on a summon. So, and he has to do an investigation. >> I have to do an investigation. >> He's got to get the VMO, >> which could be like months. >> No, it's not weeks. But you're not going to He has to get the >> I need to see. So, so I need to see Ideally, I would love to I need to see her uh bank account statements. You guys aren't going to be able to get that. She's not going to give that to you. >> The only way I'm going to be able to get that is to write a warrant for her bank account information. But I can't write a warrant without bank account information without probable cause. And I have I have no probable cause right now. >> So essentially, she'll be notified during these warrant time frames. >> No. >> Oh, >> she only gets notified if and when she's charged. >> Okay. >> She won't get notified. I send a non-disclosure form with a warrant. So the bank doesn't even tell her that I'm they're providing these records to me. All that is handled on my end. The only time she's even notice notified is is once I charge her. She'll get noticed in the mail. if she has a court date or if a judge puts it on a warrant, we'll go knock on her door. >> Before Before that happens, would you notify us and say, "Okay, I've completed my investigation and this is what I'm going to >> constant like communicate." If you give me tell me who you want me to go through, I could give you guys timely feedback of uh the process. If you give me an email, I can email back and forth. Um, >> I just need right now I have spreadsheets >> uh or or like print outs here which which is fine but again >> compilation you want >> and our email and you have mine so we'll we'll provide you with >> Do I have your email? >> No, we're going to use the Marlton Lakes email. >> I know as I'm saying I already have their emails though so I can email them. >> Um this is all we have from the Venmo that she provided us. >> So that's fine. But I mean you're looking for like Understand? >> So >> I'm looking for >> like bank statement stuff. We don't have that for that kind of stuff. >> That's fine. Yeah. You wouldn't, right? Because you don't have access to the vendor. You don't have a username or a password, right? >> The only person who has a username statements, >> right? So here's what I need. Um I need and I I can write this down for you, too. >> I got it here. >> All right. What I need is um I need bank statements for each card. >> Um with because the the bank statement is going to show all your all your charges, good or bad. I need you to somehow either highlight or put a an as you need something that's going to which one >> is fraudulent. >> Y >> okay. And I'm assuming that on the bank statement it's going to say Amazon. It's going to say Walmart. It's going to say Shopight. Right. So, I know that on this date, this much money suspected to be a fraudulent purchase went to this merchant. Um, and it was none of you guys. >> Okay. And you're going to provide me your bank statements. And you're going to show me on your bank statements. None of this was ever put back in. >> Uh, you have the Venmo thing. the Venmo account. I could I could write for um and try to get a warrant for um if I can get something else that kind of shows like there's some fraudulent activity, right? Like the the Venmo she created and all that stuff for the Venmo. Um, we're assuming the money that she got in the VMO deposits, she deposited into her bank account >> and never put back into the >> your account. >> Yeah. There's there's no checks. >> Yeah. So, the future obviously I would never allow anybody to connect a personal bank account to any sort of >> um like association banking account or anything like that, right? like the police department, we have our own bank accounts like for the FOP and that doesn't go to our president's personal bank account or you know what I mean? Like >> so if we showed you bank accounts from our bank that that wouldn't have these sort of deposits in them, would that be enough evidence for this part of it or is there anything else that you would need from this part of it from us? >> Well, right. So, if you show me your bank account, which is going to show none of these >> amounts going in on these dates, right? >> Or none of these amounts, >> then that's fine. Also, provide me the credit card statement that's going to show these amounts, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Does that make sense? We have >> I could compare. I could compare. Oh, look. Credit card statement >> $50 Amazon on this date. Excellent. Um, now I can look at your bank's your bank account. There's no $50 deposit put back in on or about that date, right? So, we know charge was made to Amazon, never got put back in. She's the only one with this card that that is suspected of doing this, right? She's the she's the one that has access, right? >> Yes. Um, to the to our bank account. Uh, who's the sign? Tracy's the sign. No, no. Ashley are sign and the treasure sign. >> Um I can do you want that proof right now because you can I >> No, let's just go back and put it all together and we'll send him a nice package. >> The biggest thing is the Venmo. He finds nothing in the Venmo. We're wasting our time over two transactions for that. We're not We can handle that internally. >> We've come this far. We've already decided to do this. So, I think let's just finish the process. We'll take a little bit more time to put a package together. we'll give it to you and then if you know you'll let us know whether you feel that and and again we are not we're not >> these these um transactions were Venmos that were made to her >> they were made to the Marlton Lakes >> Venmo that she had correct >> nose were all coming out of her Venmo into a standard transfer which did never went into MLCA bank account >> these are the Venmo transactions that went to her. >> Got it. >> Okay. >> These are the deposits, you know, the withdrawals coming out of that. >> Mhm. >> So, these are all things that you should see in your bank account. >> Right. >> And the my uh the bank account would or her Venmo history would show this. I'll be able to get transaction IDs. I'll be able to get the device she did it from, get her coordinates, >> where she did it. >> Yeah. So, that's what I mean. Right. So, just there's in transparency, we're not sure if that's valid or not, right? cuz she provided that to us. >> Yeah, I'm assuming it's going to be >> okay. >> In incorrect improper >> I I run this. I'm going give you that. >> I run the ladies corny. There's >> memo deposits going into that memo to collect ladies corn. She then Venmoed me. So if you want your proof, it came from her that went into MLC >> and then it went from sheened me the 160 >> from here. I have the proof right here. It's in the email. You all have all have this. >> What do you think? >> You all have it. She sent it. >> Oh, I guess I never realized that was all down at the bottom of that. >> So, this is >> Yeah. All right. Perfect. So, now I know where I'm going to send my >> So, I was just trying to say this is probably enough to >> We'll put that in the little Venmo folder. >> I know. I just very much so here's what's going to happen. Yeah, no worries. No worries. So, here's what's going to happen. I just want to get some clarification here. Uh, >> wait. Let's put your name down. >> Yeah, I I'll give you my card. >> Yeah, >> I'll grab a card for you. Um, Officer Rose is going to do an initial police report for this. um uh from the patrol aspect, it'll wind up most likely getting pushed back to me um with the investigation part of this. Um but I'll get you my card um to call me know. >> We'll um Yeah. And we'll probably drop it. One of us will drop it off. Do you want us to print it all for you? >> Yeah. I'd like to sit down or if you want to bring it, if you want to put on a flash drive, how I don't care how you give it to me, but um if you want to um I just want to sit down with somebody and go over >> here. Don't just give it to me because again, I don't know what I'm looking at, >> right? >> All right. >> Thank you, sir. >> Good luck to you guys. Um right now, we're just opening up a case for fraud and theft. Tracy's name. >> Um, Tracy. >> Uh, I have >> Jacqueline. Yeah, >> Jack. >> Sorry, that's it's my first name. I use my middle name. So, >> I got Tracy. Sorry. T. >> Awesome. >> Thank you. >> All right. Let me grab a card real quick, Rose. One sec. >> Yep. >> And is there any followup we need to do with you? Nothing. Just >> I'm So, I'm just really doing initial about anything else. So, I'll contact you guys and I'll let you guys know. >> So, when we get everything, we should contact you, email you or both of you. >> Well, >> we'll make an appointment. We'll contact you and make an appointment to come in my car. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Unless we let you know one second. >> Yeah. Like we contact you before then. Then obviously we'll try to figure something out from there. But um all the other information off his card, you could probably just send it back to him cuz I almost like be on patrol side. I'm actually not going to be here for the next like month and a half. So yeah. >> Is that good or bad? I know. >> I I get married on the 30th. >> Oh, man. Congratulations. >> Awesome. Are you going going destination wedding? >> No. So, we we're getting married here, but we're going to Aruba for a couple weeks. So, >> Oh, nice. >> That's really nice. >> Nice. Congratulations. >> All right. Well, when you're on something, you have to stop by the beach and show it cuz we're usually all down there. So, stop by and show us the pictures. >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. >> We all provide habitat. Yeah. >> Yeah, I know. It's a lot of fun down there. It is nice area. I I drive down. It's not as we don't get too many couples in there, which that's a good thing. >> I know. Here's my car. >> A desio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Awesome. Thank you guys very much for your time. >> All right. You guys have a good one.