Nick, stay where you are. Nick, stop. Stay over by your car, dude. >> You almost grabbed me, I think. >> Because I asked you to stay where you are and you began >> But I'm not detained. Oh, no, I'm just standing on public easement. >> But you began walking closer to the investigation >> I know I I would absolutely never approach an officer in that manner. I would go and stay out of their way so they could focus on doing their job. Let's say if I was to walk this way, but I would You've got no legal grounds to stop me from moving freely on the public easement. >> This encounter started when an officer approached a man who was recording a traffic stop late at night. The officer claimed the cameraman was distracting officers from their investigation and suggested that his presence near the scene created a potential safety concern. The problem was that the auditor wasn't interfering with the stop, wasn't giving orders, and wasn't preventing officers from doing their job. As the conversation continued, he challenged the officer's assumptions about danger, questioned why police automatically view citizens as threats, and forced the officer to explain what legal authority he actually had. What followed was a revealing exchange that exposed the gap between officer safety concerns and the rights of citizens standing in public. >> Well, that's uh the blue light special. Oh. Hey brother, how are you? He just needed to look at my [ __ ] Sorry, guys. Oh. Yeah, I'm I'm staying back. I Thanks, brother. What was your name, brother? What What Explain one more time, brother. Lee? L E E? Oh, that's cool. I Hey, brother. No lights in the eyes, please. Oh, I'm sorry, man. Just Right. >> You're going somewhere? >> No. Not in my eyes, please. >> What's that? Can I help you out? Nick, can I help you out? Nick, stay where you are. Nick, stop. Stay over by your car, dude. There's absolutely no reason for you to be over here. >> What's your name? >> Officer Clifford. >> Awesome. I think I've seen you before. >> Okay. >> What's your badge number? >> 364. >> Okay. Who's your sergeant or corporal, whoever? >> Sergeant Hendrickson. >> Oh, good. >> Okay. So, this isn't your first rodeo. I know that you know what's going on. >> And here's the deal. This is >> Can I can I can I talk to you and then you and then you can talk to me? >> Well, that won't work because you won't let me talk. >> I will let you talk. >> You're going to say something for about 2 minutes and it'll be the same thing in repetition. Go ahead. >> to say is that these officers are conducting an investigation. >> Yeah, I know. I'm trying to get some I'm trying to actually do my first amendment and what you're doing is journalism right now. >> Which and that's fine. >> Right. Hold on. I I got >> You are >> I don't want to get in their eyes. >> focus off of these guys and what they're doing. >> Sorry. Um Well, I don't want to blind this guy cuz he's got He's got I don't want to like have anybody to look at the flash while I'm taking a picture. I don't want to affect you, really. >> Just hang tight, man. Awesome. Cool. >> Thank you. That's all. >> Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Say no and back out. 342. >> And dude, I I'm trying to get better at remembering names, but give it to me one more time. >> [snorts] >> And then I'll I'll roll in. I didn't even know it's Nick Madison. >> How do I know? >> Yeah. >> Cuz I've talked to you probably about a dozen times. >> There could be a man who looks >> Okay. >> like Nick Madison. >> So, do you want to give me your ID then? So I know who I'm talking to. >> I'm not breaking [clears throat] any law, though. >> Okay. You haven't. >> I know. >> What you were doing is you're taking focus off of these officers, okay? They're conducting this investigation. I was out here. They asked me to come back out here because you guys are cuz you were taking focus off their investigation. >> That's their problem. >> officers >> It's it's unfortunate that they don't have like a I mean, can we go back and forth? Cuz you're you're you're making claims. You're making claims. >> I'm not making claims. What I'm doing is I'm telling you that they I was out here earlier, okay? When I saw you I was like >> When just 5 5 minutes ago? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. >> So, when it's when it's like after midnight, okay? Just just just just think it in general logic, okay? >> Sure. >> It's after midnight and I see a car parked behind the building, basically hidden. Now, I'm not saying that's what you're doing is hiding. >> I'd love to hear hear what you're what you think. >> Okay. So, >> Yeah. You have deductive reasoning, right? >> vehicle parked there, right? >> Sure. >> And begins walking up to officers that are conducting an investigation with something in your hand. Obviously, I I don't necessarily know it's a weapon. I don't think it's a weapon. I don't necessarily have to worry if it's a weapon or not, but what I want to do is they want to be able to work on their investigation, >> Yeah, absolutely. I don't want to be a bother. >> It's about you bothering them. >> That's why that's why I approach very cuz I approach very ninja sometimes, straight. Even with the cars. Um so, my to my uh to respond to what you said, it's um if I was to pay attention to every movement, every individual, you know, in my Well, I don't work there anymore, unfortunately, cuz my uh mug shot in the newspaper yesterday. But, if I was affected by everything that >> It's like over there. All right, good. >> uh every movement, every individual that I interacted with or not interacted with, but it was in my proximity, I mean, that that would cause irreparable damage. What's the difference between these guys and me? >> What do you mean what's the difference? >> Why is it that they can't focus when I have focus at my job? And you know, I don't see the difference. How am I a distraction? >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Do you Do you have people that potentially want to kill you for what you do? >> You don't. When was the last officer down here in Twin >> It doesn't matter whether they kill >> does. >> There's millions of cities all over the world. >> Sure. Where where that happens. >> Where where that happens. >> And and a bunch of civilians too die from that, you know, police activities and stuff like that. >> [snorts] >> All I'm saying is that whether it's a city of 20 people or whether it's a city of 20 million people. >> There are a lot of people [snorts] that want to kill law enforcement officers. There are a lot of people that want to kill people in general. >> Yeah, some people say they want to like kill their, you know, step Sorry, mother-in-law or something like that. I'm saying this sarcastically, of course. But it's um they're upset at in the in the moment and they might say something. It's called an utterance, right? It's just >> Yeah. >> Like the people say it. Um now, I I agree with you that there are people who have evil intent. And you know, those are It's like a not even a percentage of the whole country are psychopath people. Right? Um and your your conditioning has led you to believe that we're all out here to to hurt you and we're we're really not, man. If you look at, again, the last officer down even for the county was 1936, 1932 for you guys. Um and then I might have it backwards, but I really don't think you guys have nothing to worry about other than just doing things that are >> Whether they want to kill us, they want to jump us, they whether they >> I I would love to I'd love to I would love the stats so on if you guys I mean I mean I met with Kingsbury. >> Okay. >> Like do you know that? Are you aware of that? Are you really? It's like if you guys know that I'm interacting with the with the chief of police and I've never had a weapon on me, not even a pocket knife. Like what's your concern with like what's the hostility? What I I don't think you stand like that when you're knocking your friends and stuff or your wife. I don't Actually, yeah, you're married. Your wife, you know, it's like is that I I probably in feet. 20% of the job. >> Probably. >> Yeah. It's not bad, but maybe it's comfortable for you, man, but >> [clears throat] >> there's no there's no need for this. Especially for you to tell me to Like, you almost grabbed me, I think. >> Because I asked you to stay where you were and you began walking closer to me. >> Oh, no, I'm just standing on public easement. >> But you began walking closer to me during the investigation. >> I know I I would absolutely never approach an officer in that manner. I would go and stay out of their way so they could focus and do their job. And uh um I Yeah, I don't want to be a distraction, but you're kind of making this a bigger deal than it is. And I'm so sorry, I want to be able to address you. >> So >> What was your name again, one more time? >> Officer Clifford. >> Clifford, thank you. I think I won't forget. >> until I got within about 5 or 6 ft of you, I didn't even know it was you, okay? >> Exactly. >> So until I walked up and I saw that it was you >> What if I'm an old man trying to walk home, you know? Exactly. It's like just by Lou right around the corner and I'm trying to go home, but Officer Clifford is telling me I can't go home because you know why? >> why I asked you what you were doing because >> That's none of your business what I'm doing, Clifford. In reality, it's not. >> I wanted to make sure that if you were going to a house, I would just let you continue walking, okay? >> But but it doesn't matter where I'm going. >> It does when you're walking past officers that are conducting an investigation. >> But that's that conditioning again. >> and a fear of you trying to possibly hurt me. >> shouldn't be scared. I really I mean, in reality, honestly, Clifford is is there um I'd say Officer Clifford, but it's just a long but um I want to pay you the respect since you're you didn't put your hands on me. You you're being somewhat cordial and you're actually having a back and forth with me. So, thank you. Um that's not the mental well Protect and serve, my mom will tell me that till she's blue in the face. That was what your job taught us, but in this moment, I mean, sorry, in this day and age, they like to say it's enforcing the law. Is that right? That's right. And you're law enforcement. And let's say if I was to walk this way, Clifford. You've got no legal grounds to stop me from moving freely on the public easement, right? So, I mean we can come over here. Just because not to prove a point or to say I'm bad, cuz I don't want you guys to arrest me or you know, capriciously like Egan does. Um and then lie on his police report. Um I don't know what the directive is right now for you guys, but but you shouldn't feel in danger. I'm Scusa. I think he was the last injured officer and that was cuz of the uh his meniscus. Right? And what was the When was the last officer injured? I I was trying to ask that earlier and I think I got off track, but what When was the last officer got injured in the line of duty? Yeah, and if you don't know, that's cool, brother. I mean I don't know the exact date. >> Right. Officers get injured all the time. >> You bet. >> A couple weeks ago. >> From uh interaction with another individual, probably. Yeah, exactly. Was it um a Was he resisting? Was he Was he resisting and things like that? People aren't I mean people aren't animals. I mean we can be we kind of are mammals, [clears throat] I guess you could say, but um nobody likes to be um held against their will or at the moment when they did think that they haven't done anything wrong, um you know, and someone's trying to keep them from going somewhere. They can be a little bit hostile, you bet. But I don't know. Have you seen my YouTube channel before? >> I don't think so. >> Oh, that's bad. I recorded five of my six arrests. My first one, I've never been arrested before until last year. And I didn't even know I had to go to court. I was actually in the courthouse studying for family court. >> Mhm. >> And as I was walking out, Sergeant Terry at the county, um stopped and asked me my name and showed me a paper and it was all really quick. But man, I got three knee strikes. I held by eight people and four other deputies were were watching from from the outside of holding cell one. So, like it's terrifying for one. Like I was uncalled for, but you can see why I'm I'm really interested in the conduct of of how you guys operate. It's it doesn't seem like there's a rhyme or reason. Um to to the Oh, to to um the hostility to you guys being so concerned about your safety. Only I guess if you're if you're in the middle of a struggle should you be concerned about your safety. You should [clears throat] always approach a situation with caution, but don't presume we're going we have a weapon on us that we're going to and we're going to use it on you cuz I think the second amendment still is legal, right? Or um in play. I don't know how to say it, but a constitutional right. So, like why is it that Wilson and loosely accosted me over the park? Probably cuz I was walking up on a traffic stop doing my journalism. You know? That was it's kind of kind of uncalled for, I guess. >> So, but also >> [snorts] >> that day that day >> Please sign out. >> Lieutenant Wilson and Sergeant Wilson had contact with you. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> What what was going on in the park that day? >> Yeah, that's why I came. I wanted to talk to you guys about my my airsoft guns. >> So, that was National Night Out. >> Yeah, you guys have one every year. >> And that was a few days if not a week prior was a large um >> Oh. Go ahead. >> shooting, correct? >> Yeah, in Dallas and excuse me, no. So, it was Dayton, Ohio and in El Paso. >> Yeah. >> I Dude, I got the newspaper. I saw that. And I Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. For sorry. Delivered. >> One thing that that was brought up is that it it was a um public safety issue. >> Okay. >> Cuz we obviously know >> Okay. We So you got a directive then afterwards. Sorry, go ahead. >> No, not not even that. >> Were you told by Well, did you guys just all like have come up with it all on your own that that we have to go and be more um vigilant when it comes to firearms in public because of that or did your captain, sergeant even the chief say to you everybody as a group saying we need to be more vigilant about safety and and weapons. >> I think it's a little bit of both. We're not so much concerned that that that what you're going to do or like whether you're going to have a long for or whether you're going to have a firearm or not, okay? Cuz every time that we come in contact with you, those firearms are usually airsoft toys or whatever, right? >> Right. >> But and we've dealt with you quite a lot, am I right? >> Let's say it one more time. >> So we have dealt with you quite often, correct? Over the last several years. >> I would I would say um not to my intentions to interact with you, but I've been um approached, accosted, however you want to put it. >> So on that specific day >> Mhm. Oh, at the park? >> At the park. >> Okay, yes, sir. >> There was multiple citizens that had called in of concern. >> Uh from the park? >> From the park. >> They couldn't just walk Hey, who's this guy? That seems weird. Um I saw the I saw the log. It was um I want to say it was like 4:38, right? Was it was it called in, we'll just say. Dispatch said. And then um the it was the same time for So the call in and the dispatch time was the same times. So it leads me to believe that it was a um an officer's decision to approach me or a citizen went up to an officer and made a complaint. Um what's the difference between me and somebody with a cowboy hat doing the same thing at the park? Like you know, just for an example cuz it's not me. I'm trying to I'm trying to have you imagine somebody else. >> So, like I was saying before, it's not so much that we're concerned that you're going to do anything. What what we're concerned about is that somebody that doesn't know you is going to see you with that stuff after having a unfortunate events that have happened in other cities, okay? >> Yeah. >> Um >> Nobody likes that. >> They're going to say, "Oh my gosh, this guy's got a gun. What are we going to do?" >> Yeah, dude, you >> You so >> That's great great point, right? >> so they have their heightened awareness. >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cuz they don't have um they don't know what's what. Maybe it's going to happen to us now because that's what the news portrays, fear, right? >> So that's what sells. So for all we know, and and people had every right to. There was probably a lot of people that were out there with concealed carrying that day >> You bet. >> that were at a very heightened awareness. >> Yeah. >> And at any time, had you grabbed one of those guns out of >> Oh, jeez. >> for any malicious reasoning, >> Yeah. >> I I can guarantee you that you probably have guns drawn on you by citizens. >> I took a risk going out there. You better believe it. But somebody's got to figure it out when is the appropriate time to to go out and and bear arms as we're allowed to do in the Second Amendment. 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? Well, you know, what what is it? What's You maybe you know, Clifford, but I I don't think it that it matters. I think that if anybody has a weapon that isn't wearing a badge and doesn't go by officer or LEO, then they're a threat. Well, you you've you've told me that I'm you didn't know who I was and I was just walking up. I didn't appear to have any bulges or anything like that, and I was still considered a threat. I should Why couldn't I just be Hey, that's the guy who pays taxes and that goes to our you know, to to make sure that we can operate safely, have the equipment we need. You know, why couldn't I be that guy? >> Because you guys are conditioned to think that everybody's a threat. You know, to think safety, but to safety to you means everybody's >> This was one of those encounters where the officer struggled to justify many of the claims he was making. The man repeatedly asked simple questions about why he was considered a distraction or a threat, and the answers often came back to generalize concerns rather than anything specific he had actually done. Legally, citizens generally have the right to record police activity from a reasonable distance as long as they are not physically interfering with an investigation. Based on the video, the auditor appeared to be exercising that right while challenging the officer's assumption that approaching a public scene automatically makes someone suspicious. During the whole encounter, the man remained calm, asked direct questions, and forced the discussion back to facts instead of assumptions. By the end, the officer had no evidence that the cameraman had actually done anything wrong.