They've been following me around. They're suspicious as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if got partners that are committing crime somewhere else and they're keeping an eye on our location. So, you're going to give me your ID or I'm going to arrest you for failing to ID and you're going to go to an FBI federal prison for it. You're going to be committing a federal felony state class A one last time. 3802 Texas penal code. When under detention, you may not give false identity. When arrested, you must identify. Straight up. No question about it. In this video , a Livingston police officer approaches a parked vehicle after deciding the occupants are suspicious, simply because they're filming around the police station. Instead of identifying a crime, he repeatedly demands identification and threatens arrest under Texas Penal Code 38 B02, insisting that refusing to identify is itself a crime. The encounter quickly turns into a debate over what the law actually says as the people being questioned push back on the officer's interpretation. I don't understand you. What's going on? What? What's going on? No, it's not Spanish. Wait. What's it saying? What's that? I know what you're saying, but give me one second. We'll find out. Am I entertained or can I step out the car? Simons, they say they don't speak English. So, I'm trying to find out why they're here, what they're doing. Why are they being suspicious? How are you? Good. And you? Good. Well, I don't know what the gentleman is doing here. I'm Officer R, Livingston Department. Livingston. With the Livingston Department. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is asking why you are acting so suspicious , because you are chasing the police officers. Chasing, what does it mean that he is suspicious? What is that? What is something against the law? I'm sure you don't know English. Manda. Are you sure you don't understand English? For spreading lies. I'm asking. He says he wants to drive. Ah, but why? What is nature? Ah, it's a... What crime would that be? You don't know. Don't grab anything, please. Where? Don't grab anything. Don't suck your hand. I don't know what you have there. A toy gun, right? I don't usually answer questions. Okay. So I'm saying right now, don't do anything suspicious or move your hand regularly where I can't see because you have firearms. Okay. No, no, don't do anything that would indicate danger to me. Okay. Are you assuming that I have firearms? I'm looking at bullets. And is the bullet a firearm? No, I asked you when I talked to you if you have a firearm and you didn't answer me. Well, I don't answer questions. Normally, when a person has bullets, I'm going to assume that you have a toy gun. Yeah. If you want, why do you have a magazine with bullets if you don't have a toy gun? Ah, well, probably. Yes, probably. That's why don't do that . Okay. What's going on? What are you doing? Well, I'm parked right now. The person who stopped you says you're suspicious, you're driving, circling. Restart, please. A suspect can stop you and you don't like what's happening. But he committed a crime, a misdemeanor , something. Or I already told you that he's indicating that he's suspicious. Listen to my question. Did he commit a crime? I didn't look, I don't know why he stopped you. Well, ask him. I'm asking you. He's telling you that you're the interpreter. Okay. Tell him what I'm asking you. He says, "Give him your license or get out of the vehicle." And why am I going to get out of the vehicle? You have to give him your license. That's what he's asking you. But why did he stop me? Uhuh. Or give me your license. One of the two. Which one are you going to do? Right now you're failing the ID, so I'm about to arrest you for that. Hey, Jack. Ever heard of 3802? You don't? So again, give me a2. Give me a license out of the vehicle. So, you're about to commit a felony? I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to tell you this. Obviously, you're not going to tell me what the law is. I know what the law is . Fail ID requires an arrest. That's what I'm about to do what? Everything we're doing, I don't know why he stopped you. I wasn't here. Okay . He's communicating with me. What's going on? He's communicating with me what's going on. He's obviously turning around. He's turning around. I thought I was going to talk to you guys if you needed help or what's going on because I don't know if you were lost or what's up, right? Oh, okay, okay, okay. That's what I was going to talk to you guys about, but you guys left, I left you guys. Okay. Obviously whenever I was askoll me around suspicious as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if you got partners that are committing crime somewhere else and they're keeping an eye on our location. So, you're going to give me your ID or I'm going to arrest you for failing to ID and you're going to go to an FBI federal prison for it. You're going to be committing a federal felony Texas A. Okay, I have a problem. I think I don't have the right to present Livingston, Texas. Livingston, Texas. I'm going to ask you this. So, everything is fine. They're just recording everything you're doing, right? Well, I'm just driving, getting to know the city. I understand, but if you're if you're if you're driving and you're recording, you're getting to know a vehicle, you don't have to be recording . I didn't see you recording. He's recording, they're recording. Yeah. But when you guys passed by, he said you were recording. Okay. You have to be familiar with the vehicle, you have to be driving. Okay. Obviously, if you have something watching, recording, at the same time that you're driving, yeah. You don't think that's going to ...Well, it's going to distract you when you're driving the vehicle. I'm not seeing any of that, but if I am, well, I need you to tell me a reason why I was stopped for a crime. There has to be a crime. 3802 Ask a question, please. No, wait, I'm going to ask you a question, please. It's just me. I'm asking you this question. Can I say something, do you have firearms in the vehicle? Yes or no? No, I don't usually answer questions. Okay. So, I'm going to assume that you have firearms in the vehicle because you obviously have bullets in there and you're not driving. If you're loaded, you have a bulletproof vest. I'm going to assume because you can't, you don't want to answer me. I'm going to assume that you do have firearms. I'm just trying to keep this guy from the next years inying him. I was talking to the guy who doesn't understand. I just want a license. Hey, what's his name? Simmons. Oh, God. Officer Simmons. Simons. Dude's going to spend the next 5 years in court, criminal and civil. Oh, Jesus. So right now inspiring me. No donkey. This isn't because of weakness. This is pure stupidity and ego. Straight up. You think maybe he was the one at the gas station? Yeah. Yeah. That's Oh man. Yeah, we got um flip it around for you guys. So again, you're a suspicious person. I need your ID. You're going to lose the next 5 years of your life in court, bro. Are you going to give me your license or I'm going to arrest you for failing ID? Which one is it? Are you of equal rank? If you didn't give me a license. Are yall of equal rank? Yeah, we are. So, just so you know, if you let him do this, you're in jeopardy also for failing to intervene. So, you don't have a dog in the H. You don't know our communication. I don't care. I know the law. You don't know what I just did. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If you let him, you're equal rank. If you let him do it, he's not your superior officer. You get a failure to intervene. So that's up to you. What I'm trying to tell you. I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to this. He's the driver. I am just making both of you fully aware of what this decision entails. Do you know the Texas Penal Code? 38.02. 38.02. Do you know it? Send me the Texas Penal Code 38.02. Do you know it? What is it about? What is he talking about not producing identification. He can only identify me if he arrested me for a crime. That's the only way. That's not the reason. That's the only way he can arrest me. No, no, no. If he stopped me for a crime, a violation. That's the only reason he can identify you anyway, because he arrested you anyway. He hasn't mentioned any violations of anything. I already talked to him about that matter . Okay. I already talked to him. I already told him I have to say. You have a supervisor, a manager. He's not here. He's not here. Well, I need a supervisor here because they're here right now. I need one. That's all we have. I need a supervisor. I need a supervisor. Which one are you going to do? What does it say? Because I hadn't left. What is probable cause? It's probable cause. That's it. Nothing more. And Texas isn't a stopping ID state. Sadly for you. Yeah. So they're conspiring right now. Watching us to uh have another team. What have you determined right now? The young guys trying to do. No. So we do that. All of that. Yeah. Yeah. I did not realize that it was Mr. White that here. Who's Mr. White? People are calling and saying, "Which one?" Mr. Popular right here. How you doing, Mr. White? Did y some phone calls? Reason my eyes. It's kind of bright. Yes, sir. That's way I can see through this stuff. Oh, and and obviously he he Well, now I know who you are, so I will be happy to let you go. But Oh, you know who this guy is? Huh? Let him explain to you why he what he's telling you. I already explained it to him. told him that when I walked up to the window. No, no. What I'm trying to say is the reason why he needs to identify you is cuz he doesn't know who you are. I know who Mr. White is and you could be a team radio into another team to commit a crime. And you know the really fun thing is Texas Peanut 3802 throws you in jail if you actually tried to do it. No, it doesn't. Light out of my eyes. Light out of my eyes. Light out of my eyes. Light out of my eyes. Take the light out of my eyes. Did you understand the law or I do understand law. Do you know I'm doing this job? know 3802. Yeah, obviously you don't, man. Yeah, you just got stupid. didn't recogn somebody called phone call this encounter revolves around the limits of police authority during a consensual encounter. versus a lawful detention under Texas penal code Section 38.02, simply refusing to identify yourself is generally not a crime during a voluntary encounter. The statute applies in specific circumstances such as providing false identifying information during a lawful detention or refusing to identify yourself after a lawful arrest. Whether an officer can require identification depends on the legal basis for the detention, not merely on labeling someone's suspicious . Throughout the encounter, the officer repeatedly claimed that being suspicious alone allowed him to demand identification and threatened arrest if it wasn't provided. The individuals challenged that interpretation and maintained that no crime had been identified to justify the detention. Ultimately, no arrest was made. The exchange also highlights how misunderstandings of legal standards can escalate routine encounters. Knowing the difference between a consensual interaction, a temporary investigative detention, and an arrest is important because each carries different legal requirements for both officers and citizens. Yeah.