So you solicited a trespass without doing your investigation is what you are are you >> Mr. Livingston was peacefully standing on a public sidewalk exercising his wellestablished first amendment right to film in public when officers detained him and demanded identification without lawful justification. The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees that the right of the people to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause. Every court that has examined the issue, including the Sixth Circuit, which governs Michigan, has repeatedly held that an officer must possess reasonable, articulable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime before he may constitutionally detain that person and demand identification. Here, the dispatcher, the 911 caller, and Mr. Livingston himself all told the officers he was on the public sidewalk and had never stepped foot on Jolly Pumpkin's private property. Trespass under MCL750.552 requires actual entry or remaining on private property after being forbidden. Because no officer had any articulable fact suggesting Mr. Livingston had ever been on private property, the detention and forced identification were unlawful from the moment Officer Surman announced, "You're now being detained." A federal jury would have little difficulty finding that qualified immunity does not protect the seizure, paving the way for substantial damages against both the officers and the city. Hey, what's up? Yourself? >> Good. So, we just got a call from they don't want you to videotape this area. >> Okay. >> Okay. ID. >> Um, am I committing a crime? >> So, you just they just want you to move along from the the premises. >> Okay. >> Um, do you have you been trespassing? >> No. No. I'm not even on my property. >> This is Pumpkin's property right here. This public sidewalk is their property. >> I mean, they clearly moved off what they're using. >> This is proceeding right here. >> This is your ID. >> Have I done something wrong? >> So, we just want you moved along. We don't know. >> No, I'm not trying to make it hard for you. >> I'm not trying to either. I just really believe that I'm on public property, not their property. Um, and therefore, I'm not committing a crime. I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm taking pictures in public, which is a first amendment right. Um, therefore, I shouldn't be I shouldn't be ID. I shouldn't be trespassed. I shouldn't be anything. I don't This is where I'm at. I mean, >> yeah. Ultimately, they just don't want you on your property anymore cuz they kind of make other people feel comfortable in the area to stop the trespass, help you down to the end of their barrel. Um, and then I'm around. It's confusing to me, but then I'm off their property even though it's public sidewalk, right? >> I mean, this is this property where they have so if you're on like their premises here, they just don't want you around their business right now. So, what do you think? I know. >> I was just walking along taking pictures until one of their customers called me back >> and a couple other things and I say offic you from the area. Um, I follow you on Facebook. I was making a B Township uh joke when you came up, but looking for our manager, whoever be the best person to talk to. [music] Yeah. You want >> All right, my man. We got your ID on you. >> They want you trespass. So therefore, we have the right to ID. >> I have a right to leave then, right? I know you are now being detained because you are going to be trespassed. I need to identify you before you're trespassed. In order to write you your trespass, >> so you're going to trespass me for this side. >> What's that? No, you're trespassing this establishment. >> But I'm not in the establishment. >> They have the right to trespass you. I've never been on their property. >> They have the right to trespass. >> So I can stay here. The sidewalk is public, >> so I can stay here. >> You have your trespassing from walking sidewalk, right? >> No. No. >> I don't know why you would want to do that because frustrated with you. >> I don't know why they would trespass their property without even talking about that. >> I never talking when I'm watching. Okay. Is that the one from >> If they would like you trespassed, >> if the fieldhouse across the street calls you and says they want me trespass because I'm on a sidewalk, you're going to do it. >> So anybody I highly doubt that anybody off the sidewalk. >> I highly doubt that Fieldhouse would call and have you trespass just because you're standing on a sidewalk. >> Probably felt the same way about the Jolly Pumpkin. >> Okay. Would that be proved wrong? Okay. >> I guess I can go talk to them and double check. Can I answer any questions for you? >> Um, how am I being trespassed off a property I never stepped foot on? >> That's what they told me and that's what they used to get my ID from me. >> We're not going to It was just getting my ID. >> I told you. >> We're not a stop and ID state. I was breaking no law. They told me I had to. >> We're not We're not trespassing. >> No, but you establish more than my life. >> No, they didn't. We We told them >> and I told them and during the investigation I clearly stated where I was walk down there. Private establishment. >> No, but I do like them. Have a good day. I have a trespasser. If I'm on their property and if I'm on their property, correct? And I was never on their property. Your cops used a trespass warning threat to get my ID from me. Now they got it. Everything's fine now. Right. consolidated. Nobody wants to listen. What happened if I didn't What happened if I refused to get my ID to your office? They get They told me I did. They told me I was being trespassed and they needed my ID to trespass me repeatedly. They said it. I haven't sure. Can we find a way to mediate this where there's not issues between you and Johnny? Well, right now my issue is with you guys forcing me to give me give you my ID. Okay. I am investigating a possible trespass. Okay. I ra suspicions you had reason. >> I don't know to determine if you were and he did go in and talk. Did they lie? >> Did they lie to you? >> No. You went inside before you took my ID. You went inside and talked to them. >> I said, "Would you let him trespass on your property?" They said, "Yes." when I came outside here. >> So, you solicited a trespass without doing your investigation >> is what you are. >> Are you willing to have a conversation with me or not? >> You just said you went inside to find out if >> I went on their property, but you went inside and said, "Do you want us giving us a reason to make contact with you?" Correct. >> No, I can call the cops on that. >> Yeah, we can. Yeah, we can talk to someone and investigate it. >> Why would you? I mean, what are they doing more? I can see from here. >> What are you doing? They called us for trespassing. >> Well, what are you doing wrong? >> That's what I never even >> The officers repeatedly insisted they could trespass him from the establishment even though he had never entered it. Michigan's criminal trespass statute MCL750.552 states in pertinent part, "A person shall not enter the lands or premises of another after having been forbidden to do so or remain after being notified to depart." Because Mr. Livingston had never crossed the property line, Jolly Pumpkin had no legal ability to forbid him from entering or order him to leave property they do not own, the public sidewalk. A private business cannot trespass someone from public property, and police cannot enforce a legally impossible trespass order. When Officer Surman detained Mr. Livingston solely to write him a trespass notice for property he had never been on, he executed a textbook false arrest under color of law. Courts routinely award damages when officers detain citizens to issue trespass warnings that have no legal. This is precisely the type of blatant constitutional violation that juries punish with six and seven figure verdicts. >> That's right. So, you should have never even talked to me when you see me driving by. Oh, wow. That's guys in public taking pictures. >> How do I know? >> Can I have my ID back? >> Can you find Can we find a way to mediate this where there's not an issue between you and Jolly Pumpkin? >> Why wouldn't you want that? Sorry. Why would I want to? Well, as of right now, I mean, that's the only way you're going to get me to leave. If you want to arrest me for being on public property and then you can appease their feelings that make them feel better, not my goal. It's not my goal. It's not my goal either. Okay. So, that's why I'm asking, can we can we can we be adults about this? and can we mediate to where they're happy and you're not recording their customers and you just move down the block down to that tree and you record the sidewalk whatever else from over in there. I'm not going to cuddle the feelings. I was never on their property. Um, first amendment. You suspect I told you what I want to do. I would like to mediate the situation between earlier. I offered to move down off of the sidewalk in front of their property. I do not recall that you >> I offered to move down there, but you were consent with the uh >> I I don't know if I I do not recall that. I apologize for not recalling that. Can we do that now? >> No, you my I had you have a suspicion that I committed a crime. What was it called? guy on the camera taking pictures. >> That does not say that. >> You came out. You got the answer. My question hungry. >> Thank you. >> Have they been educated, Serge? >> Uh about the you being allowed to film publicly, >> but guests have left because they felt uncomfortable with you getting their face. They even covered their faces. I was told. So now we're looking at harassment too, sir. The camera is about harassment. I didn't talk yet, but that's what I didn't talk to him. So that's what she said. They lost guest because they felt harassed based off of how they feel about these. If they feel harassed off of they feel harassed right now. I know. Are you a person? Okay. Well, I'm doing more right now with you than I was talking. You just said a reasonable person. You're a reasonable person. My feeling that they maybe they were unreasonable in their and that's where you can they could have sat inside but but they but they didn't want to. They covered their faces. told by the manager and they let out because they're not happy with that. They said they asked you to stop and there was a little disagreement between you and the guests. Nope. That's what I was. They said they covered their faces and left how anybody can feel a certain way to feel certain way. They can feel certain way people have the right to feel that way. If they feel certain way, they feel harassed by you. They can feel that way. Uh what I'm hearing though is feelings feelings feelings. So we can we can um we can ask them if they left it be really nice to ask them if they left. So any other questions for us? No. Are you done telling me that I have I never told you that you I told you you could stay right there. You wanted to become an admissible situation where they were happy and I was happy. >> Correct. I did do that. You are correct. I did do that and I asked you are right. I did do that. I never ordered you to leave. They could have said that's their business. That's folks that want to see her in public. Um I'm sorry. Would you like to move inside? I want to create your own privacy. If you don't want to be filmed in public or seen in public, maybe you shouldn't sit outside and sit there and ask me to not be upset. Can they? Sure. Sure. Can they call the cops and threaten a press? You know, man with guns came out of a guy with camera. Breaking news. I appreciate you showing up because I don't trust these two. Not the way they were going at home. Can I have your card? Sure. I'll send you a copy later. Not everyone's educated as well. I said we try to do that. And that's part of what this is education. They didn't want to talk to me about it though. They wanted to talk to you about it. I don't want to talk to you. I don't even want you to show up. Tell him on tell dispatch he's a guy with a camera. I talked to him already. See that's how it was just right over this guy. who are they all but it does seem like your officer there's pass without an investigation and and that's your opinion when did you out. I was never on their property. Tell me that we can talk. Okay. Sunday. >> All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. >> When mediation failed, the sergeant pivoted to the claim that Mr. Livingston's filming constituted harassment because patrons felt harassed. East Lancing Code section 2667 and Michigan stalking statute ants MCL750.411 both require one intent to harass. Two, a course of conduct or repeated acts that serve no legitimate purpose. And three, conduct that would cause a reasonable person emotional distress while expressly exempting constitutionally protected activity and conduct that serves a legitimate purpose. Filming police misconduct in government buildings from public property has been repeatedly recognized as core First Amendment activity with a clear legitimate purpose. Merely pointing a camera at patrons seated in an outdoor patio visible from the public sidewalk without threats, without following, without blocking or even speaking to them, cannot meet the statutory elements of harassment or stalking as a matter of law. Threatening arrest for harassment under these facts is retaliation for protected first amendment conduct, exposing the officers in the city to additional liability under 42 USC section 1,983 for first amendment retaliation. A claim that almost always defeats qualified immunity and frequently results in punitive damage awards. When a knowledgeable citizen stands his ground with a camera and a calm explanation of the law, bad policing collapses and the civil rights lawsuit that follows often ends with a very expensive lesson for the department. Mr. Livingston's restraint and documentation turned an attempted intimidation into what is likely to become another very large settlement or verdict against the East Lancing Police Department. Like and subscribe for more police cam stories. Watch the next recommended video. Click to watch now.