All right, hold on. Let me get your supervisor. He's going to tell you, sir. What bank? Here's the deal. Here's [clears throat] the deal. Both of I need your ID. What bank? >> Look at that. >> I need your ID. Can you answer that? What bank? I need your ID. Give me your ID or you'll be arrested. A statement that sounds simple, but could send the entire situation straight to court. Why do you need Just cuz you have a couple complaints you have to tell them to leave the building? Are we being detained? No, you're free to leave at any time. All right. Okay, sir. So, here's the deal. Property does belong to WCBV and they're asking you guys to leave. Just one unjustified demand for ID and this [music] time the officer could be facing a lawsuit worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right in a visitor parking lot, a group of people with cameras and just minutes later everything starts to escalate. No warning signs, no restrictions. So, what exactly caused the situation to spiral so quickly? It's a public way. There's also a train tracks right over here. You can see the line in the road there. Goes right beside this property. There are no no trespassing signs there. Yeah, it's a public road. Everything seemed normal at first with no clear no trespassing signs, but that very ambiguity led to two completely different interpretations of the law. And once the police arrived, the situation quickly turned into a tense confrontation. You want to do the talking? I will. I don't care. I'll do it. Go ahead. It's your woman. So. Hi. How's it going? How are you? Good. Are you guys associated with Channel 5? I don't answer questions. Okay. We just had a couple complaints that you guys were here filming in the building. Can I take your name, please? Officer Sarah Thurman. Okay. Listen. Can I get your badge number, please? Uh we don't do badge numbers, but my ID number is 2307. Awesome. Thank you. Are Are we um on >> to people in the building, but I mean Is taking pictures of their building against the law? No. It's a public building, but if they're on the property they don't They don't want you on their property. Are we on their property right now? I'd have to check with the town to see where the property line is. How about if I stand right here? Are we good? >> I thought you were associated with Channel 5. No. Okay. Do you have IDs on you by any chance? Do I need an ID? Do you have one on you? Not on me, no. Okay. Uh what's your name? Why do you need my name? Just cuz we had a couple complaints that you guys were filming in the building. If I haven't broken a law, I'd rather not give my name. Okay. I'll just wait for the other officers to arrive. Oops. Are we being detained? No. You're free to leave at any time. All right. Would it It'd be better if you're on the public road. I don't want to accidentally be on their property. They're Uh we're on a public way right now, correct? Uh this is Technically their side. Cuz on honestly There's There's no no trespassing signs. There's no no clear [clears throat] indicators of their property. And actually the signs are welcoming people to proceed past the fence. And it's actually a visitor's parking lot. They never asked us to leave, either. Okay. So, that's one up. We had a couple people on Channel 5 that said That's fine. They actually just asked us what we were doing, and we told them. For what? Tension became increasingly clear both sides argued over authority and legal boundaries with neither willing to back down. What seemed like a routine check was quickly turning into a situation spiraling out of control and moments later it escalated even further as the story entered a more intense phase. This guy is coming on way too quick. He's driving away too fast. There's not that serious of a crime going on guys. Hey sir, how are you? Good, how are you? Thanks. Um, can I ask you why you're filming the channel 5 >> I just let her know everything and after this I don't want to answer any more questions. I don't want to incriminate myself in any way. Why would you be incriminating yourself? Uh, you guys are police officers anything I say can and will be used against me in a court of law if by chance that goes that far. So, I do not answer questions from now on. Okay. So, you guys are just kind of hanging out? Can I just get your name and badge number? Colin Fitzpatrick 523 Awesome, thank you. Appreciate it. Can I get your name and badge number too, please? Ed Zimmerman 0250 Thank you. Appreciate it. We're not looking to cause any trouble. I know, we aren't either. We aren't either. Just figuring out what's going on. I hear you. I hear you. So, you guys are just kind of hanging here? >> We're just filming the building from what we believe is public. There is no sign saying do not enter, no trespassing, things like that. >> So, that's that's what we're going to work on. We're going to work on that if this is >> Yeah, it actually says uh visitor parking here. Um, the signs at the fence actually say proceed beyond the fence to go to the lobby. There's no signs that say otherwise. So, Do you guys have official business with WCB? No. Wait, what do you mean in that way? >> business, like are you here for you know, to speak with somebody at the organization or anything like that? Uh, I'm not going to answer that question. I do think you were driving a little too quick for photographers. There was no actual real crime going being committed. You're driving pretty quick down here and that person pulling out here got a little As the words grew more heated and the risk of being detained became increasingly clear, the situation quickly reached a breaking point when a decision from law enforcement began to shift the entire course of events. Okay, sir. So, here's the deal. Uh this property does belong to WCBV and they're asking you guys to leave. >> Okay, where does the property line start? At the street. All of this is our property. The driveway, Where the Where the car washes? Everything. >> The car washes? No, the car wash belongs to Okay, so not at the street then. This You're standing on my property. Okay, I'm going to I'm going to walk off right now. But, where does it start? Cuz you said the street, so that's not true because you have to pull in. Our property, sir. You have to pull into the car wash. Sir, you have to let him explain, okay? Okay. All of this property belongs to us. Is she with you as well? You can You can ask her. I'm here by myself. I'm asking the other answering the other officer's questions. So, since it is private property, I'm Wait. So, now I'm detained? Am I detained? >> They want them no trespassing. Am I Am I detained? At this point, yes. Yes. We have to get your information No. No, you don't. No, he asked us to leave, I'm leaving. No, I You cannot trespass me. You cannot just trespass >> let me explain to you? No, sir. You cannot just trespass me. No, because you cannot just trespass me like that. They asked me to leave, I'm leaving. Yeah, so So, I We need your information. >> No, they No. No, they asked me to leave and I'm leaving. That's That's how it goes. No, but we No. No, you do not need my You do not need my information. So, no. Am I detained right now? Yes. Now, I'm detained. Yes. And we would like to get Yes. No. No, listen, guys guys, this is that Where's the sergeant? Can I get a supervisor here, please? Get a supervisor here. Get a supervisor here. Sorry, sergeant. Sorry, sergeant. No, no. No. You're getting you're I am. I am because you guys are not following the law right now. No, you're not. There's no no trespassing signs. They asked us to leave, so we leave. You do not get our information from there. So, you're on their property. >> But, there's no markings. Time out, you are on their This is a visitor's parking lot. I know. So, if if I was here as a visitor If if if I'm here as a visitor, and then you don't want me here. You can't just trespass me and get my information. You have to ask me to leave first. Right now. No, no, no. Right now is the first time they asked me. I have it all on film. This is the first See See, there we go. Thank you, I'm leaving. Okay. But, they He he just agreed with me right now. He just agreed with me. He just agreed What should have been a simple departure was suddenly blocked, >> [music] >> intensifying the dispute over rights and how the situation was handled. And in that moment, everything changed, pushing the story in an unexpected direction in the minutes that followed. I know, me too. I I would already been gone. They never asked me to leave. They asked us what we were doing, we said we're filming for a story, and they said, "Oh, okay." Well, that's the catch-22. If you want someone off your property, you have to tell them, "I want you off my property." Yeah, and when you guys tried, then they detained me. You didn't detain me. They did, though. >> [snorts] >> I know. I'm trying, but they detained me, so I can't go. I can't go So, they want us off their property, so I I we're still on your property, sir. They own this roadway that goes into they can't. They can't. Okay. So, are we good to leave? Am I free to leave? Well, here's my sergeant who'd like to speak with you because you didn't request You guys didn't request us. I I requested him. We're good to go? All right, thank you, sir. Sarge, can I get your name? Absolutely. It's Sergeant Carl Johnson. Thank you. Badge number 8710. >> My name's Tom. Tom, pleasure to meet you. Thank you. I appreciate Awesome. I appreciate you respecting our rights, sir. Appreciate that. Thank you for setting that all straight. Thank you. Thank you. Everything ended without any arrests, but what just happened still raises serious questions about how the situation was handled and the officer's understanding of the law. And that's what truly makes this story stand out. Up next, just standing on the sidewalk filming a few cars, but within minutes it was turned into a suspicious situation. Who called the police and why? I couldn't hear. Do you understand? He's He's just taking pictures of license plates and cars. He said, "Is that okay?" I don't think Well, I mean, I guess. Do you work here? Yes. You work here? Here? What is your guys' Wi-Fi password? Do I know? What is your Wi-Fi password? I don't know. I don't have a password. You don't have the password? No. Oh. Okay. I wanted to What is that? That's a Toyota Tundra. I like that one. That's a newer a newer year. A Toyota Tundra and that one I can't tell. Go ahead. Okay. Who are you filming? What is it? I don't know. All right. Plate? Do you understand? What you saying? Uh uh uh plate? License plate? Uh What for? Uh sure. Yeah. He said for the boss. Who is the boss? The boss. Who is the boss? Who you work for? I I can't really say. I just don't want to give out his information, man. That's okay. Yeah. We wasn't going to go like inner on you guys' property. Yeah. He said we wasn't even going to be long, like couple hours or so. Everything seemed fairly normal as they stood on the sidewalk talking and filming their surroundings with no clear signs of wrongdoing. But the way others perceived their actions made the situation increasingly sensitive and within minutes everything shifted when someone decided to step in. He told me don't talk to you. Okay. You know, and I I'm open to talk, but Yeah, I don't care. I mean, you're not hurting me none. Yeah, yeah. Just don't get in front of my building. Yeah. Uh football? Yeah, football. Football good? They're good. They played today. >> [laughter] >> Oh, you got Would you be able to get that those behind the white truck, though? All right. How y'all doing? What's up? Come talk to me real quick. You say what? Come talk to me real quick. Come talk to you? Yes, sir. We're just walking. That's fine. I just got a call that y'all were uh Let's keep walking. S29 showing me a scene at car Quest with those two individuals. Hey, let's let's keep walking. So, what's the issue? We're not walking anywhere. So, we're detained? Yes, you are. >> For what crime? Because I got a call that the two of you were walking around I can barely hear you. I was got a call that the two of you were walking around and y'all were recording license plates. From public? Over at the bank? From public? >> Okay, that's fine. What are y'all doing? Just recording from public. Okay. But, why are we Y'all were also in cold water inside the bank. The sheriff pulled up, you know that. You know that. The sheriff pulled up. You know we wasn't inside no bank. We never was in the bank. So, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, Officer Lowry. Go ahead. What rights do we have in this situation here that you're here to that you're here to defend? I'm just making sure that y'all aren't doing anything cuz That's not how you That's not how you approach me, though. Hey, man. You just said we detained, though. You're stopping me from my movement on a public sidewalk. For what? What gives you the right to stop me? >> All right, so obviously you're going to be difficult. So, like I said, >> you We said we Go ahead, let me Like I said, The conversation began to grow tense as simple questions turned into suspicion and probing. The atmosphere no longer as relaxed as before, and that shift set the stage for a major turning point soon after. I have an investigation going on right now because there are some people concerned about what y'all were doing. >> Who? So, I am here to to talk to the two of you to see what's going on so I can let those people know, "Oh, they're not up to anything illegal. They're not doing anything wrong." Okay? So, are you investigating a misdemeanor or a felony? What are you investigating? You just said you're investigating. Are you investigating a misdemeanor >> Well, it depends on what y'all were doing if it was a misdemeanor or felony. But, you said we detained, so you you got to be able to articulate a crime. You just said we're detained. All right, I'll see what y'all doing. It's all right. Now, see what you're doing. You're trying to walk yourself down the wrong path, man. Okay, bud. It's Look at you. You're shaking. We're not even doing nothing. Stop shaking. >> unit, please. You're shaking. >> Look at this, man. Walking >> Stop me from my movement. >> Walking on the sidewalk. Yes, it is a public sidewalk. >> Because you're trying to make people feel better. I'm trying to do my job. No, your job is Right now >> Okay, look. This is a government license plate. That's fine. Anybody's license plate is public information. Why do you need that information though? Your license plate looks cool. Let me document that. Do you not No, okay. Look, no license plate here looks cool. There's That's not a valid reason for you to That's not a valid reason for you >> Hopefully he's Hopefully he's be quiet. Hold on. This is a supervisor. Hopefully this is a supervisor. Don't talk to my officer like that. I don't mind talking to y'all. I'll treat y'all with respect. >> You want me to cuss at him or How do you How do you want me to talk to him? >> to not call him an idiot. Okay, so you want me to call him like a either a worse word than that or No, I would How about just treat him with respect and I'll treat you When you stop somebody on the sidewalk >> to violate our rights though. It's kind of hard to respect somebody. Because he deserves it. Ooh. Deserves it. So, me just seeing him for the first time ever, he tells me to stop and don't go anywhere. He deserves it. Yes, he has that right, sir. Baby When we get a phone call about people that are possibly walking in banks, videoing, videoing license plates in a parking lot >> What bank have you been in? I haven't been inside of a bank. We have under law the right to stop you and question you as part of our investigation. >> Maybe you should get your Maybe you should Maybe you should get your information correct first or >> correct. So, we've been inside of a bank. No, I said you got to be inside >> amendment right, sir. Yeah, but an illegal search is an illegal search. Yes. I need your ID, sir. I need your ID, sir. I need your ID, sir. I need your ID, sir. I need your ID, sir. Hold on. Let your supervisor He's going to tell you Tension became evident as what started as a simple exchange turned into real control, raising serious questions about rights and legal boundaries. And soon after, the situation escalated further as pressure from law enforcement grew increasingly clear. I need your ID. What bank? >> Look at that. >> I need your ID. >> see your ID? Can you answer that? What bank? >> I need your ID. For what? Sir? >> Excuse me. I'm now going to tell you Give me your ID or I will place you under arrest. That's all we needed. Thank you. Thank you. I'm under threat of arrest. You shouldn't have said that, sir. We're on the We're on the sidewalk. >> You just [ __ ] up. If you say If you >> Tell me. Tell me. You told him. I will place you under arrest if you don't give me your ID as well. >> And are you aware this is a fourth amendment constitutional violation? It is. No, you do not. What's the fourth amendment, officer? Okay. Can you spell that for me, for me, please? Give the ID. To who? Give the ID to you. I'm going to ask you to give me the ID. He didn't I thought he was talking about to you, though. No, I said both both of us. Give me Give me your ID or I will arrest you. Okay. Either way. I know. So, what is that ID going to do for you? That's I I didn't hear. Can you hear him? No, that's good. What I What is that ID going to do for you? >> It's going to let me figure out who you are. It's going to let you know if I've been inside of a bank or not? No. You're the lieutenant? Yes. Last time I checked You're one of the dumbest lieutenants I've ever met. I appreciate that. You have your first amendment right to feel that way. And it's not your first amendment right to be talking in public with that [ __ ] in your mouth. >> I'm I'm I'm shocked I'm I'm really just shocked, so especially with you. It's okay with him, but you just supposed to be a little bit more knowledgeable, sir. >> more knowledgeable. No, no, no. He's experienced. during an investigation, I have a right to ask for your ID. Are you investigating a misdemeanor or a felony? >> matter what I'm investigating as long as I'm investigating. >> a crime scene. You're investigating a bird pooping on the sidewalk. A misdemeanor and a felony are both crimes, so you don't know what you're talking about. As long as I'm investigating articulable suspicion of a crime. >> And I got that. I can articulate my suspicion all day long. articulable suspicion of a crime. >> We had a call We had a call for two individuals We had a call that matched the description of the clothes you're wearing. About you being in a bank and a possibly being out in a public place. I don't have to tell you that. So that's a So you don't believe in false police reports? I do believe in false police reports, but how do I How do I know How do I know it's false until I talk to y'all? That's the point [laughter] I'm trying to tell you. No, I don't do that because then that gives you time to get away. We We're not trying to get away, sir. We're not doing anything. I don't know what your Why your issues are. The dispute reached a boiling point as both sides clashed over authority and the law with neither willing to back down. The tension was higher than ever and moments later everything escalated further when a key decision began to change the entire situation. I'll give you my name. And the CFS, please, sir. You want to know how many we have on YouTube? My name? I'm Lieutenant Howell. I need his Can I get both of y'all on a piece of paper and the CFS? >> I'll tell it to you. You're recording. You'll be able to get it from there. Okay. I'm just trying I'm just I'm just required to give you my name and my badge number. I'm just required to give you my name Can I get Can I get the CFS as well, please? I'm required to give you my name and my badge number and that's what I'll give you. Where's your weapon? Can I get the CFS? >> have it right now. Oh, okay. I was just wondering. Can I get the CFS though, sir, please? Can you radio over for the CFS, the CAD, please? No, you're not getting that. Okay. You're You're allowed to get my name, my badge number. That's what you get. Okay. So my name is Lieutenant Howell. My badge number is 1103. Let's uh This is Officer Lowry. So what What else information do you He just told us No, no, the other guy. Right here? I just told you, Detective So you got word that we were inside of a bank. We got a call. Uh-huh. From? It got to be them. It got to be them. It got to be them. Yes. If it's If it's okay, but hey, if it's public information, then guess what? Go file your public records report. Go to the PD. Everything about They will be more than happy to give you the public records report. They'll They'll you the call. They'll give you the CAD notes. they'll give you the body cam, and all of this stuff. You're more than welcome to >> these individuals are outside recording, you're [ __ ] You're [ __ ] If he doesn't say anything about us being inside of that bank, you're [ __ ] You're [ __ ] Well, you know, I'm glad that you study law, and I'm I wish you I wish you would put it to better use than what you're doing now. This is basic. This is basic. I served my country already. What else can I be doing that's better? How'd you serve your country? I swore an oath to the United States Constitution. I got a uniform, and uh What kind of uniform? >> I did I'm not going to tell you guys. Okay. Well, I guess you want to know everything about me. Cuz you're public. You're public. You're public. You're public. Okay. He's just your public. >> What was you like to know? Oh, I I'll get it. I mean, so you're going to 10-8 now? Are you Are you going to come by and eat dinner with me? [ __ ] you offering me? Yeah, man. Anybody's welcome at my house. I do. You do? We're going to 10-8. This is just extra, man. I got 10-8. You know what 10-8 As things began to settle, no arrests were made. But what had just unfolded still raised serious questions about law enforcement practices and the limits of authority, leaving the story far from over. Citizens may file [music] a lawsuit against police under Section 1983 if their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights could face financial liability and may also be subject to discipline or termination. A civilized society is not one where right and wrong are decided through confrontation, but where issues are [music] resolved through understanding, responsibility, and fairness. Hey, everyone. What do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]