Do you have a driver's license? No, I don't. >> Okay, you don't? No. You don't have to tell me who you are though. For what reason, ma'am? Homeland Security. You mind if I take your photo? You're taking mine. Whatever you can see from public view. A seemingly small request for ID can turn into a major mistake for the police when the person being asked clearly understands their rights. You're taking surveillance of our facility. Yeah, but that's not a crime. When police demand ID from someone who hasn't broken any law, they may be putting themselves in serious legal jeopardy. A group of First Amendment audit activists arrived at the Egg Harbor Township Police Department with a clear purpose. To film and test the transparency and accountability of police at a public facility. And then a seemingly simple question was asked right in front of the police station. Can back, can back, can back, boom. Can back, can back, boom. What's up guys? How you doing? You just created a public record. That's what's up. Yeah. Your personal phone, right? That's your personal phone, right? That's your personal phone, right? Just created a public record. You know I can FOIA request that. Yeah, you didn't know that? You didn't know that, buddy? Usually people have to take their seat belt off [music] before they get out of a car. Right. Yeah, people have to take their seat belt off before they climb out of a car. We noticed you came in without a seat belt on. Yeah. No, I didn't, man. Yeah, we do. We think so. We saw we saw you coming without a seat belt on. Where did you guys [music] walk in from? I parachuted in. Help me, man. I'm going in the back. Okay, come on. McPherson. What? Why you asking where we coming from? Can you explain yourself? You didn't wear your seat belt. Why would you not wear your seat [music] belt? And enforce such a law? Okay, next. We're holding you accountable >> [music] >> and there's transparency action going on. That's McPherson right there. >> Transparency action. He's not comfortable having responsibilities, so there's no chevrons on his shoulder. McPherson. McPherson. [music] Why couldn't he just fess up and say that's my bad. I wasn't wearing it. It totally slipped my mind, you know. So we have one of these old-fashioned devices. I don't even know what that is. What is that? Can anybody in the comments tell me what that is? The last time I seen one of these was in the movies. Yeah, I think it's just a prop, right? For movies. I don't I don't I don't know if what they how you work it. I don't know what you're supposed to do. I want to break it. Uh-oh, that comes off. Uh, it's all broken. It's all broken at the ear. Okay, this sign, they have it over here too. We'll just show you from far away. They have it over here too. But this is the sign. So every time you leave it says buckle up, it's our law. Right, so that's that. On to the complaint process with the resistance. He's already down there talking to somebody. What happened? They're good? After a few minutes of tense exchange, the officer appeared to walk away, seemingly choosing not to prolong the situation. But the audit group continued observing the area around the police station. And just minutes later another unexpected encounter occurred. I want to step on the sidewalk, sir. Why is that? You know why I was telling you The reason I was telling you asking you where you how far you were coming from. If you're in New Jersey and you're walking down the road, you're supposed to walk facing traffic. So you should be on the left side uh Yeah, left side. Left side of the road? Just so you can see people coming at you. If somebody's texting you're dead, you know what I mean? If they go over the line. Okay. Cuz they come up behind you, you got no advanced notice, you know what I mean? Some good information. >> Yeah. Stay safe, guys. All right. You do also know you guys aren't not supposed to be concerned about my safety though, right? You guys do know you're not supposed to be concerned about a private citizen's safety, right? Okay. Because if we die in an accident, it comes out of our health insurance. But if one of you guys die in an accident from [music] not wearing a seat belt >> out of our pocket. >> It's going to come from the taxpayer. And that's and that's what we're concerned about. When I die, You're lucky to be in a wooden box. All right, all right, all right. Bang, bang, bang. Bang. >> Three of them. We don't want to be paying for the mistakes of the officers around here. He's got his seat belt on, he's all hooked and ready to go. Seat belt, please. Okay, thank you. Appreciate it. I didn't see it. Yeah, he put it on. Good for him. Took a little explaining, but I mean as you finally got it. Yeah, after after you were so rudely interrupted. The earlier exchange was only the beginning. As the audit group continued filming at the police station things seemed to calm down. But then another officer stepped outside and her very first demand immediately ignited the confrontation. She got out. I don't know if she's wearing a seat belt or not. Do you have identification? For what? Excuse me? For what? You're surveilling a facility and and you're Is that a law? Excuse me? Is that a law? Actually, it is. Do you have a No, can you show me a Can you show me a law? Do you have a driver's license? No, I don't. >> Okay, you don't? No. You don't have to tell me who you are though. For what reason, ma'am? Homeland Security. Homeland Security is a crime? Well Did you know what the 2018 Homeland Security memo states? 127.15. For First off, this isn't a federal building. 127.15. Do you have identification? No, I don't. We're going to identify you. Sergeant, can you can you [music] come over here and talk to her? She's having a problem because I'm recording. Uh, before she makes a mistake before she makes a mistake that costs a lot of money. Okay, and I and I'm the lieutenant, sir, so I'd like to have some identification from you. For what? What did we do wrong? Did you Did you commit a crime? You're taking surveillance Okay, I'm taking surveillance. You're taking surveillance of our of our facility and I just want to identify who you Yeah, I'm But that's not a crime. I didn't commit a crime. I'm not giving up any ID. He's not he's not committing a crime. Yeah, but I don't have to give you Bingo, bang. Bingo, not committing a crime. Actually, it is. Unless I commit a crime. Unless he Unless we commit a crime we don't need that ID unless we committed a crime. It's on the New Jersey Attorney General's website. I understand that, but you're also video taping a secure facility. Yeah, it's not against the law. It's not against the law at all. >> You're being streamed live right now. She says it's not okay that You need to talk to that chief. It is okay. We're going to stay out here and I'm going to We already got every tag. Every license plate we already got. We're going to continue to stay out here. Well, we're going to continue to do it. I'm standing my ground. After the female lieutenant made her controversial demand, the conversation quickly became tense. The back-and-forth exchanges made the atmosphere in front of the police station heavy. But instead of ending there the confrontation seemed to be just beginning. And what happened next drew the attention of everyone around. You don't got to be such a nervous person around us. We're not here to harm nobody. I'm here for any illness or injury. So I'm going to let that be known. Well, thank you. I appreciate Okay. I do appreciate that. But the sign is to determine what it is people do. Yeah, but that's the thing. You're determining what I'm doing. You don't need to determine if I'm breaking the law. And they're not wearing their seat belts. They're not wearing their seat And there's they're not wearing their seat belts. You have a sign right there that says buckle up. This officer laughs over here. He thinks it's funny not wearing a seat belt. How How many seat belt tickets have you guys written this month? You can check it out. It's going to be published very soon. You can check it out. What um You're going to have to search for it. I'll let you know later. I'll call you. But here's the thing. I can record any officer out here because you're in your official capacity and Supreme Court ruled that I can record you guys doing the course of your duty. That's all you need to know. Okay, but we're not breaking the law though. So if you got a problem with it, you need to try to talk to some lawmakers to see if you can get that taken care of. But as of now, we're here recording. Okay, yeah. I don't think they're going to go for it though because it's First Amendment. Can't really change the amendment. We're freedom of press. Yeah, like if you guys are scared, that's sad. Hey, we're just single one I'm a single black guy, that's a single white guy and Excuse me? I'm the resistance. We're independent press. For what? Don't need it. Do you need Do you need identification? That's the good question. Don't need it. Yeah. We don't give up any identify Let me just let you know this now. We don't give any identification to the police officer. You guys Because we don't do anything against the law. >> Right. And we don't need your guys' ID. That's not how it works. That That's what we're trying to We're trying to get here. This is what the conversation we're trying to get to is you don't need to identify anybody. I I I can understand your concerned and your and your concern is getting the identity of somebody. The atmosphere in front of the police station had become quite tense. Neither side seemed willing to back down. And soon after, a new series of questions was raised, putting the police in an increasingly uncomfortable position. Is suspicious a crime? Misdemeanor or felony? Right. Suspicion. Okay. So, are you in fear, ma'am? Because if you are, I will consent to a pat down. Are you in fear? If you tell me that you're in fear Okay. Well, then there's no danger. >> Yeah. Don't be scared. You know, you guys are supposed to be our heroes. >> concern for you to know while I'm out here recording. It's actually education because if we went the wrong way, it probably cost you about Well, you got qualified immunity. And the taxpayers would've had to pay it. They wouldn't have liked that. Well, you need to you need to conduct an investigation to find out if it's a crime. Right. I know, but I don't answer questions. That's what I'm telling you. You need to conduct a proper investigation to find You need to conduct You need to conduct the investigation. But not from me, though. You're not going to get it from me, man. Right. We don't We got to pay Pay us some money and we'll help you do your investigation. That's what you're saying. That's what you're saying. That's what you're saying. That's her story. >> saying that. That's what her investigation concluded. Okay. That's what they said. You didn't hear anything from us. You will not use anything against me, man. Nothing. Conduct your investigation. >> anywhere. We're not going to No, but not with us. Keep us out of it. We didn't even call you guys. So, you shouldn't be conducting investigation with us. How crazy Let me ask you [music] a question. How crazy does that sound? We got the police called on us and you're asking me to help you with your investigation. Isn't that crazy? That is very crazy. You need to talk to the people who called the police on us. That's simple as that. We will not help you with an investigation. We're here recording. We're holding you guys accountable and we're showing transparency and you've been very unprofessional. The confrontation at the Egg Harbor Township Police Department eventually came to an end with no arrests made, leaving behind only lingering questions about constitutional [music] rights and how they are respected in practice. Up next, just seconds after the camera started recording, the atmosphere behind the Palm Beach Police Station immediately became tense. A citizen was standing and filming from a public area, but the officers clearly seemed uncomfortable with it. Hey, how you doing? Can you put that down for a minute? I know, sir. Okay. Can I see your driver's license, please? Uh no, sir. Okay. You can't film on the back of the police department. It's a security breach. Go ahead and let me see your Is this public access? That is not. But the ice cannot trespass. But you cannot film in the back of the police department. >> Are you Are you familiar with 901151? Go ahead and tell me about it. [music] 901151 says I do not do anything I I didn't I'm not obligated to ID myself unless you can [music] articulate reasonable suspicion that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed. Okay. Well, first of all, when you video our sally port What law is that? What law is that? You're under arrest. You're going to arrest me for filming on a public sidewalk? Can you at least tell me your name? Uh you can call me Shock. Shock? Shock. Shock. Okay. It was a pleasure meeting you, Shock. But can you understand our concern when you're filming police department activities? And especially in this day and age when we have security concerns for police [music] officer safety and officers are getting shot in the performance of duty. So, it looks kind of suspicious when you're back here filming officers in the back of the police department. I was I was just making sure that everybody is working properly and Oh, so you're making sure we're working properly. I'm I'm just I'm just checking up on my employees. That's Where do you work at? Um I don't answer questions. Mind if I take your photo? You're taking mine. Whatever you can see from public view. Can I get your guys' names and badge numbers? We're always happy to talk with citizens that are concerned as us about the environment and safety of others. Could you lower your phone just a minute so I could get to take a picture of this? Uh I'd rather not. Questions about the right to film, officers' identities, and the department's policies began to make the situation far more complicated than it initially seemed. But instead of stopping at the argument outside the station, the cameraman decided to walk straight inside to seek clearer answers. From that moment on, the story moved into a completely different phase. There's my card, my name, our police department. All right. You got it. Can I get your uh your name and badge number? He's just a trainee. He don't even have a card yet. That's why I'm talking to you, not him. Uh can I get your name? Thank you. Can I get your name and badge number, sir? You can inquire [music] with us. Isn't it your policy to identify? Our policy is to identify people filming on our property, too. But isn't it Are you Are you the other two refusing to identify? What about you, sir? Are you going to identify? I'm going to go get your rules and regulations. You guys are failing to identify. So, now I'm going to show you guys how you can go inside and file a complaint against an officer. 13 for sure. >> [clears throat] >> Um yeah, this this call's being audio and video recorded, but I'm I'm looking to speak to somebody about your your guys' policies and engaging members of the public. Uh I I go by Good Citizen. All right. Thank you. The cameraman began asking very specific questions about the department's policies and officers' obligation to identify themselves when interacting with citizens. Soon, the conversation went further than anyone initially expected. At this point, he was no longer just asking about policies. He was preparing to take a step that could force a few officers to face a formal complaint. Um yes, I was looking to get a copy of you guys' policies on when an officer engages a member of the public. Okay. Um well, I'll have to look it up. Okay. And I'll have the records to get it to you. Okay. I don't necessarily know how long that would take, though. All right. Can I Can I also get your name and badge number? Sure. Here's my badge number. Okay. Sergeant. Sergeant. And my name is Sergeant Sanders. All right. Um can you tell me is it Is it Do you go on off the top of your head what you guys' policy to uh yourselves when you engage a member of the public? Do we have to identify ourselves? Are you Yeah, is it your policy? Is it your policy to identify yourselves? Yeah, if they ask. So, if if I ask an officer for his name and badge number, they're supposed to provide that to me. Okay. Interesting. I know. I know you did. I know you did. So, I'm looking to file a complaint. Okay. Yeah. I said an officer outside asking for his name and badge number and he refused to identify. [snorts] Okay. Well, I can take care of that. He's my officer. Okay. So Um was there a form that I could fill out? Sure. I I think there is one out there. If you don't see it there, let me know. It's 8 1/2 by 10. 10 1/2. It's a regular sheet of paper. This is the employee This is the resident ID card, voluntary ID card. All right. So, how am I supposed to fill this out for an officer who does not ID themselves? Yeah, but if I don't have any of his information, how do I file a complaint against him? Well, I know who he is. We just met him. >> I'm I'm giving him a warning. I'm giving that guy a warning. I know I know he's new. He needs to learn the policy. If he still refuses to identify once they put him out on the road, then I can worry about filing a complaint against him. I don't Actually, I do want to file against the complaint against the guy who's training because I feel like he's improperly instructing him what the rules and policies are, but I'm going to give the guy the trainee going to give him a warning. Uh The atmosphere in the conversation became more cautious. Staff inside the station had to explain the internal procedures and how complaints about officers' conduct are handled. As things moved toward the final stage, a decision was made to address the matter through an official process. I do want to file a complaint against both of them, not the trainee, that I'm just giving him a warning. Okay. Well, thanks for giving him a warning. That would be my job, but it's okay. And could I put both of them on here? Sure. Yeah, yeah. All right. And the same thing. Well, Officer Wayne did identify him uh Waymire, he did identify himself. I'm just want to file a complaint for how he used uh he told his trainee not to identify himself. Okay. And the motorcycle cop, I'm filing a complaint for refusing to identify himself. So, I'm just going to write that down. Do you want to meet your captain? Um yeah, if you could. Very much. It's going to be 1 second. I got to go upstairs. The copy machine's broken here. Okay. And thank you very much for your service. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your professionalism. You're welcome. 25 years I had it. Yeah. The conversation gradually came to a close after a series of questions about policy and officers' responsibilities. It ended somewhat unexpectedly. No more tension, just a clear message that citizens [music] have the right to hold law enforcement accountable. Citizens may file a lawsuit against police under Section 1983 if [music] their rights are violated. Officers who break the law could face financial liability, disciplinary action, or even termination. In a civilized society, citizens have the right to hold authorities accountable, and law enforcement has the responsibility to serve with [music] transparency and professionalism. Hey, everyone. What do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]