Move away from my car with your gun, please. I can't. I'll give you my name. You're not getting my license. So, the reason for this, I understand your reason. You don't have to cop explain this to me. Okay. You're shaking. Why are you shaking? That's great. All right. Your hand was shaking on your mag clip. On my mag clip? Yes. Okay. Little mag holder right there. You're still shaking right there. Your your hands are shaking, guy. Calm down, dude. Then why are you shaking? Cuz I'm trying to explain this to you. Then you can calm down. I'm not being confrontational. No. My name my Okay, that's great. My name is good citizen and I'm talking to you in a calm manner and I don't need you to be shaking while you're talking to me. In a quiet Ohio parking lot, a young car enthusiast accompanied by his father, the man briefly activated the red and blue lights on his show car for a quick photo. The car decked out for private car shows wasn't on a public road and the lights were turned off almost immediately. In Ohio, revised code 4513.17 states that red and blue lights on a vehicle are prohibited unless used by law enforcement or other authorized entities, but this applies to public highways, not private property. The man later explained, citing the law he had studied meticulously. Suddenly, police officers arrived, their approach intense and confrontational, accusing the young man of impersonating an officer. The man, a government contractor familiar with legal boundaries, stepped out to deescalate. Calmly explaining the situation, he emphasized that the car was stationary. The lights were for a photo and no one intended to impersonate law enforcement. Yet, the officers pressed for identification, escalating tensions. I witnessed him. I'm asking you for identification, please. And I said, "Mom," and I said, "No." Well, we're all right. Well, let's listen listen. Let's Let's calm it down. Can I can I step out, sir? All right. Well, come on. What's going on? All right. Blue lights flashing. I understand. They weren't flashing. They were They were It was on steady burn. There was outside. Just steady burns were on. A red one and a blue one. There was a quick picture taken and they went right back off. Like I said, there was no intent on trying to pull anybody over. The car wasn't emotion. We weren't on a public street. I understand this is a public. Okay. I'm I'm just trying to explain, sir. I'm trying to You guys come in. I'm just trying to talk to you guys thing that doesn't we're trying to explain to you. Okay. But there's Okay. I'm trying to explain to him. I'm just listen. Can I speak? I mean I I'm I'm just trying to have a cordal conversation. My demeanor is fine. I'm not having an attitude with you guys at all. I respect what you do. Okay. I completely respect that. However, I'm just asking for a little bit of reasoning for why. I'm trying to explain to you that. Okay. It wasn't, again, I'm just saying there wasn't an intent to pull anybody over or to do anything like that. It wasn't like we were in motion. I understand what you're saying. And he's a young kid. He wanted to take a picture of the car with it like that. Okay. Generally, it's it's generally it's set up for private car shows and that's what it is. But that right there is the difference. Private private. I understand that. And that's why it was a quick on and off. It was one quick shot. Understand? It could also be a warning, but in that has to give a license. You can't go no. Okay. It's like a traffic stop. I I understand. That's why I stepped out to talk to you guys to kind of deescalate and see how I'm talking to you. Anything. You're just adding to Okay. How am I adding to it, sir? What's your Okay. Name badge number. Sheldon M. Sir, badge 534. Is this your car? Why does it matter? Is this your car? I have a first amendment right to talk. Sure. Yeah. You also have the right to let him do his business. Okay. All I'm all I'm going to do is I'm going to take down his name for my report so that if we get a report later on, somebody's trying to pull somebody over. Can you guys please listen? Can I understand your job? Okay. Are you dad? Are you family? Are you involved? Why? Why? Right now, he's trying to conduct business. I understand that. He's trying to talk to this guy. Is this is are you relating to him somehow? Just carried out with him. Fair enough. So, I'm going to need your driver's license, partner. at the end of Can you step back? Give me some space, please. Step back and give me some space, please. Step back and give me some space, please. That's fine. I'm going to step back then. You're invading my personal. In fact, move away from my car with your gun, please. Move away from my car with your gun, please. I can't. I'll give you my name. So, the reason for this, I understand your reason. You don't have to cop explain this to me. Okay. You're shaking. Why are you shaking? That's great. All right, we'll start with that. Your hand was shaking on your mag clip. on my mag. Yes. Okay. Little mag holder right there. You're still shaking right there. Your hands are shaking, guy. Calm down, dude. Then why are you shaking? Cuz I'm trying to explain this to you. Then you can calm down. I'm not being confrontational at all. My name is Okay, that's great. My name is Good Citizen and I'm talking to you in a calm manner and I don't need you to be shaking while you're talking to me. Okay? We can talk normal. We can talk. That's fine. We can talk normal. That's perfectly fine. But at the end of the day, this is just a minor thing. It doesn't I get it. I get it. So that's why I was trying You guys came in real hot. I understand your job. What's your name, man? My name I don't Okay. You You came in a little towards towards the whole situation. I'm allowed to talk. Yes, he is my son. Okay. I would imagine myself. We weren't driving. I understand what you're doing. I understand. That's why I said shut him on real quick for a photo and turn right back off. It might have been a dumb idea. Yeah. I understand. I understand. I know. And that's why I say the normal when we go to car meets it's completely private. You don't need to give name. He said I need to explain the car here. No, we're done. We're done. We're done with that. You haven't committed a crime. There's no need to I just said let them [ __ ] go away. They're wasting their [ __ ] time. Okay. Just just calm down. Let him do the warning thing. But you have no you have no part of this. She She does because she just admitted she drove this vehicle. This is a marked police vehicle. Where is it? Doesn't say police anywhere. And in the state of Ohio, the law says it has to be it has to have a police department name on it. I know what the RC code is on it. I'm not either way. Can we just deescalate? Do your thing, guys. I'm I'm done. We're good. I understand. So, as far as you understand. So, the big difference here, like I said, we always do this on private properties, the car shows, because it's just walk away. Just walk away. Just walk. Just go sit in the car, honey. Please. I think I think a show car is a cool thing. Yeah. And that's that's all it is, man. It's a cool thing to do for the car shows. You know what I mean? And we we 99.9999% time have always done it on private property. There's never been an incident ever before. Like I said, he wanted a cool picture down here. It was real quick. Turn them on, turn them off. And again, I figured, hey, we're in a in a pretty location right down here. There's no other civilians around. Nobody's going to think he's a cop. There's they're on the show. They're with the show. They understand he's not okay. We're pretty big into the scene. So, it's a good wholesome family thing to do. Like I said, we generally never turn them on at all because he knows because I know what the laws are. Okay. And and I understand the private property versus hey, I understand that. Take a warning and there's there's, you know, I I totally get that there's a way to communicate with the citizens without coming on so strong. Okay. I deal with it a lot. Okay. I I work with DOC. I work with a lot of different departments in the area. Okay. So, I understand. But when I come into a situation, I try to get the information before I start coming on strong. If I need to, then that that's where we go to. Okay. But that's why I said deescalate a little bit low. I know. But he came in really high. That's why I said deescalate and calm down. I know. And I didn't I didn't record it unfortunately, but you know, I know. And I That's why I say he's got body cam. I can foy it if I have to. But, you know, and in fact, I should have my body cam on right now, but I don't. So, um, it is what it is. So, again, it it's usually a private property thing and and I understand. So, I get where you guys are coming from. I totally get where you guys are coming from. So, that's why I'm trying to talk to you calm and you were shaking a little bit there. So, that was kind of worrying me. You know what I mean? You kept you step up on me and you're shaking. I was trying to hear what you're saying. Okay. I'm I'm talking calm because I want you guys to calm down. That's how you deescalate. When somebody's getting heated, you try to calm them down, which is what I was doing. And now now we're talking calm, right? You're not shaking anymore. Well, I also wasn't sure what was going to go on there cuz I I understand you come onto a scene and you don't know what's going on. I get that. But there's no need to come into the scene hot and I didn't. I came You came in warm. You came in warm. Okay. So, we're agreeing on that. As the officers demanded the man's ID, he firmly but respectfully pushed back, asserting his constitutional protections. The Fourth Amendment protects citizens from unreasonable searches and seizures requiring reasonable articulable suspicion for an ID demand, he stated, grounding his refusal in legal principle. The officers, particularly one who, the man noted, was shaking and appeared overly aggressive, insisted on compliance, even though they hadn't witnessed anyone driving the car. The man pointed out that without evidence of a crime, such as impersonation, the demand for ID was baseless. He highlighted that the car lacked any police department insignia, a key requirement under Ohio law for impersonation charges. His son, the car's owner, was simply a young enthusiast, not a criminal. By invoking his rights and maintaining a calm tone, the man challenged the officer's overreach, turning the encounter into a lesson on civil liberties. It wasn't necessarily arguing arguing his loud voice. It was him trying to demand certain things. An argument can happen with less voice. I can understand. I can understand that. So, at the same time, when you guys come on to something as a backup officer, you don't know what's going on. Okay? I completely understand that. Okay? But when it comes down to it, you guys got to be a little bit better when you come into the citizenry thing like trying to get her ID. He didn't witness her drive this car. I could say I drove that car. She could say he drove that car. Anybody can say that. You guys didn't witness that. There's no there was no reasonable archable suspicion that she needed to give an ID. That's a violation of fourth amendment. Okay? I'm very strong on my civil rights. I'm very strong on other people's civil rights. There's a lot of police officers that are really good so far. I'm giving you a B+ cuz you were a little bit hot. Like you said, warm. We'll call warm. You're a little warm and you were shaking there, which was kind of freaking me out cuz when I see a guy with a gun shaking, kind of freaks me out. I'm not saying you would pull it. The hood's still over so we're good. You know what I mean? But you guys got to approach people with a little bit calmer manner and you would get a lot better result from a lot more people. I'm telling you that it works for me. I can tell that. I can tell you're pretty cool right now. Okay. You got the glasses on. You chilling. All right. You know what I mean? I'm cool with that. All right. But again, it's the way when when you guys approach the scene. Okay. You if there's a lot of people around, I get that. You don't know what's going on, but you got to come in a little cooler. That's all I'm trying to get at, man. Education, not confrontation. You know what I'm saying? I And I don't disagree. I don't know again what happened with him once he got here. All I know is I pulled up there was arguing disagreements. There might dis that's better word for disagreements. Wordage. You got Yeah, wording is is is everything. So there was a little bit of a disagreement maybe on what was going on. Okay. And again, I was trying just trying to simply explain to the officer cuz I respect you guys. Hey, I understand you you saw whatever you saw. I don't know what he saw cuz I wasn't here, but I've been here since he got here. We came together. Um the lights went on for a couple of seconds. A couple people took pictures of it real quick and it got shut right back off. That was it. There was no foul play. There was no ill intent. There was no Yeah. popping popping. It's cool. I don't understand why people like that. It's a certain tune on the car. I don't know. I don't I don't get that. I feel like that's just a little bit excessive is is Yeah, sometimes it can be I just call it annoying. I can imagine driving. I mean, I don't know how old you are. You're probably a little younger than me, but you know little T things when you push them and little pop. That's what I think of every time I hear one of the things popping by. Anyway, um, back to the subject at hand here. Um, yeah, I understand it's illegal to run them on public street. I completely get that. Impersonating an officer. I I understand how that all works. And I know he said impersonating me off. He did when you first rolled in. He said, "I got I got your your, you know, I want your bad your your your ID because you were illegally, you know, doing the whole police officer thing." He doesn't have any logos on the car from any police department. That that's part of the law. in order for it to have a marked vehicle like he said it was. His wording his wording said. So that's why that's why I say you got to have your facts. You got to know other your rights. You know what I mean? You got to know our rights and all that stuff. You guys have the right to ask certain questions. I get that. We have the right to not answer certain questions. Fifth Amendment. I don't have to say [ __ ] That's going to incriminate myself. Were you driving that car? I can stay silent. You guys have to do the investigation. So, in order for them to say he drove that car here, unless he admitted it, which he probably should have, cuz if I was involved with trying to block him from incriminating himself, the register, but anybody can drive a car, anybody can flip a light switch. So, unless somebody witnessed that happen or you guys have physical proof that that happened, which is reasonable or technical suspicion, then you can get the IDs. I understand that. Okay. So, that's what I'm trying to get at. We have rights. Citizens have rights. Police officers have a certain duty to do, but there's that line. Once you go over that line, you have crossed the line of now that puts a bad taste in my mouth about this particular officer. And once that keeps building up in people's minds, that's where that disconnect between law enforcement and citizenry happens. So again, I'm about education, not confrontation. I don't want to sit here and argue with police or having like this guy, he came in really high. I mean, I can tell he gray hair like me. He probably been on the force for a while. He dealt with some dumb [ __ ] I'm sure we're not doing dumb [ __ ] You know what I mean? It's all innocent fun. It was in good good faith. There was nobody trying to pull anybody over. Nobody saying, "Hey, get on the ground, motherfucker." You know, it wasn't anything like that. That would be that I understand. Um I'm going to get a lawyer. Well, because I um this isn't the only ones that have targeted him. CPD and all the other ones have told him if even if it's not private property or not, he's allowed to have his lights on because it's a car show and it's for the kids as long as the car is not moving. Right. But there there's certain there's certain gray areas. There's certain gray areas in the law. We have different people telling us different departments telling us different [ __ ] So, I'm just going to get a lawyer because people are targeting my son. I wouldn't say it's targeting your son. It's more geared towards the car and the reds and blues on it. You guys can look at it and it's not illegal to it's not illegal to have, you know, an an out of service police car as long as it's not got any, you know, police department names on it and stuff like that. So and again honestly actually on that end I don't know if that's entirely what was what was I don't know if that's entirely like having the police it can even say police on it as long as it doesn't have a department or a law enforcement agency's name on it or or insignia or insignas. So, I looked up the laws on it very very in fact got the OC code on my phone and I've sent it to him just so we can have it in case this should ever happen. And there there is very, you know, gray areas in that impersonation with the lights and the blue lights and the red lights and amber lights to the front with white, you know, amber lights and red in the back. And that's I understand all those restrictions. You're allowed to have clear and amber to the front. You're allowed to have red and clear and amber to the back. Um, you know, one license plate light illuminating license plate has to be white in color. I we went through the whole OC code. I went through it and in fine depth and detail. So again, I am all about education. I want to educate myself so that when I know that something's happening, I know I have my facts. Are you is it red on one side, blue on the other? Uh I don't know, honestly. So what I would personal advice is if you make it red all the way across, you guys got something going on up there. Might be more important than this. See, he's got whites, but that's a take down lights. But yeah, you got to pull the fuse off of that right in front of it. Well, I But anyway, uh your question or your statement, I'm sorry. If you went with red, if you're like the uh Well, not necessarily all red. You don't have to switch to all red, but if you're doing like the corner lights, um cruise lights and scene lighting, if you did that on all red, I think you'd have a little bit less issue, right? There's a lot more relay on the red volunteer firefighters and there's a whole bunch of other people and the popo is the only ones to run a blue. So, Exactly. Right. But I mean it's it's even past the volunteer fire. Watch that yard. Sorry. Uh it's even past the volunteer firefighters. I mean if you like the city of Columbus, they have their work trucks that are running the red lights. Um you have, you know, tow trucks have red lights on white and red brake lights. Um I think you'd run into less issues. I don't know how often you're running into issues with Not not really because like I said, it's always on private property. When we do the car shows, it's you know, we go to farms and rent out farms. You go to private property, rent out the properties and have this is this is really absolutely nothing. We go to car shows where there's, you know, hundreds of thousands of cars. His knowledge of the law empowered him to stand firm, exposing the officer's shaky grounds for their demands. Despite the officer's heated approach, the man worked to lower the temperature, emphasizing education over confrontation. The Fifth Amendment allows individuals to remain silent to avoid self-inccrimination, he noted, reinforcing why he and his son weren't obligated to answer every question. He acknowledged the officer's role, but criticized their hot entry, suggesting a calmer approach would yield better results. The man shared his background, mentioning his police academy training and work with federal contracts, which gave him insight into law enforcement's challenges. He explained that the car was a fixture at private car shows where such lights were common and legal and this was a rare misstep on public property. By engaging in reasoned dialogue, he shifted the dynamic getting the officers to listen rather than escalate further. It's on private property. So, and again, it it's one time quick picture shots real quick and that was all it was, man. So, no one no hard feelings towards you guys. None of that. Yeah. And I'm not saying that, you know, I don't say there's no intent in that. I dude, trust me, I get it. I'm a car guy. I love cars, right? And it's just a cool thing. It's just one of those. And I understand you get and that's why I was like, you know what? [ __ ] it. There ain't a lot of people around. We're not on the road. Do it real quick. And it I guess it's my fault. You know what I mean? As his father, I probably should have said that. But you know what? You know, it is what it is. I get it. And honestly, you know, I my best isn't back. I wear same uniform every day, all day long. So, you know, I understand what you guys are doing. I respect you guys 100%. You know, I'm not a police officer, but I deal with DOC. Uh, I deal with a lot of other fun stuff, too. So, but you know, I've gone through the whole police academy. I know my rights. I did the whole civil rights, law enforcement, law, and all that crap. So, out of curiosity, you said you went through police academy. Why not get in? Cuz I don't I make more money. That's fair. I work government contracts, man. I work government contracts and if I see something, I don't have to get involved. That's fair. So, I mean, you know, I don't have the pension and all that fun stuff you guys have in qualified immunity and all that good jazz. But with the government contracting though, I mean, if you make enough money, you can put the money away. I mean, more or less advertised. Yeah. If I was working city, you know, small city cops, I'm I'm right there with them. So, and again, I don't have to get involved with anything. I get nights and weekends off, work Monday through Friday, no holidays, federal contracts, good pay. You have federal contracts. Federal contracts. So, that's what I said. I work with DC. I work with federal prisoners and all kinds of different fun stuff. So, I deal with murderers and rapists and all that [ __ ] just like you guys do. Just while they're transports or Oh, no, no, no. I deal with uh mental and drug problem for the most part is those those guys I deal with. So, just keeping them under control basically. That's very helpful. So, and again, I I understand you guys got a job to do. Um, but there's there's that boundary where again the the citizens of the United States have kind of got a disconnect. As you see, there's a lot of anti- police people out there. You know, you can't disagree with that, right? No, I don't. So, and and I get it. People look at me and instantly think I'm a cop. I got a badge. I got a gun, you know, and the vest and all that [ __ ] And if I'm out, you know, on my way in or out of work or whatever, people are instantly like, "Oh, I got the [ __ ] cop." I get that attitude. I get people talking [ __ ] to me. I get it. You know what I mean? So, but at the same time, we've got to have a little bit better approach to people, I think. Um, especially with officer um you know, I'll just call I don't know what his name is, but he never identified himself. So prosecutor hasn't called me back or anything, but um here's what I recommend to you. If and if you're going to use this vehicle for show vehicles or for car shows or whatever, totally fine. But the the way the law is written is that it says a vehicle cannot be operated unless it's done so by a sworn law enforcement officer, somebody with the task of enforcing traffic laws to drive or operate a vehicle that is equipped with red and blue flashing lights. Can you define what operate is in the OC code? Yeah, it means drive. And he wasn't driving the car. No, no, I just And the car wasn't running. If I finish talking to him, I really don't have anything to do with this right now. What was your name again, sir? My name is Detective Carl Roberts. 529 is my badge. Okay. And what's your name? I don't have to give that to you, sir. Okay. So, then I don't really need to interact. That's fine. Have a good day. Point being and what before I was so rudely interrupted. I would didn't rudely interrupt you, sir. Okay. Keep continue. Just calm down, bud. Calm down, man. He's an [ __ ] Here's what I'm telling you. Somebody could actually pull you over and probably arrest you very successfully and you might beat the rat, but you won't beat the ride. So, he's a detective driving this around. Wow. Driving around, right? As the way he talks to people. I'm not talking to you. Continue. I'm talking to this guy cuz he needs to All I'm saying, you better be careful with this because nice. Can you tell me who his supervisor is? The supervisor? Um that camera who's whatever you guys got watched man watch or lieutenant call he's only here what's his last name he's only here well and honestly I mean what what what put me into a bad mood with with Harry Township I'll get real with you all right can you we're good um you should be doing a job His citizens are paying him out of my Texas building. Uh, Perry Township. Uh, this has probably been 20 something years ago. I got pulled over for looking at a cop out the window of my car. This is back when you guys were running. So, probably like 20, not even 2020ish. But anyway, I got pulled over. This guy was screaming, yelling at my problem with the way I drive my car, [ __ ] That that really put me off. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if Pendleton's still with you guys or not. That was, like I said, 20 years ago, probably. So pendleton's probably long retired by now. Yeah. So I I talked with that guy. You know, like I said, I've got respect for you guys. When you guys get the citizens respect, you're cool, right? You're cool with me right now. You know, you're chilling, got your arm in your vest, now you're not shaking more. We're cool. You know, I mean, I understand you come into a situation, adrenaline starts dumping and [ __ ] like that, but this dude's got to calm down, man. If he needs to be a detective, they got to take him off the street. They got to take him off the street for real, man. I mean, that's So, what I would like you guys to give you a business card? Yeah, that'd be great. If he's got one, I need one of his, too. But I want to ask him if he could get one of his for me. That'd be great. You got a business card? Yeah. That's mine. Cool. You need to be All right. Yeah. Yeah, man. You're cool. I don't What's your rank? You just a patrolman? I'm just patrol officer. That's cool. But it it it is a weird situation and it's definitely it is defining the great line. And that's why I was trying to come out and deescalate, man, and just to calm down and listen for like 2 seconds like you have. You know what I'm saying? Like if he hadn't shown up and it was me and you, this would have gone a whole different way, man. I honestly believe that he's just got to calm down. He got the military haircut, dude. He's He's not like, you know, we're just citizens, man. We're not criminals. Not I mean, it's a traffic thing. It's not even a uh but it's not a really even a pullover. I mean, it wasn't really even a traffic stop to be technically. He wasn't in the car. The car wasn't moving. Keys weren't in ignition and and all that. So, I mean, it is what it is, but and I don't know what this specific section with the red and blue lights is. I don't know if it's an operate uh period equipment. Um I couldn't tell you to be honest. I've read into it. Like I said, I pulled the OC code when we were we were setting it up for the car shows and everything, but you know, it is what it is. Like I said, it's just just a matter of how people approach other people. And that that was that was all. So you guys are dismissed. Yeah. All right. Buckle and bounce. You got Oh, yeah. We never got that, did we? I asked him to ask you. You don't have a I have one of yours. Uh yeah. Why are you shaking? Who's shaking? You are. You're shaking and he was shaking. Dude, now I'm cold. I got you. I don't know. Yeah, me too. All right, you guys are dismissed. We're good. I have a great All right, man. You're good. All right, I appreciate you. I would just be careful. I know. And I understand that, man. Just make sure it's private property. Private property. 100% agreeance. I get it. But it's just in the future. Amen. We're good. It won't it won't happen again. I promise you that. So, all right. Have a good night. Be safe, guys. As the encounter wound down, the man reflected on the broader issue, the disconnect between police and citizens. Ohio Revised Code 2921.51 requires specific intent to impersonate an officer which was absent here. He clarified, underscoring that his son's actions were innocent and lacked malicious intent. He urged the officers to approach such situations with less hostility, noting that their warm demeanor and unnecessary demands fueled mistrust. The man's passion for civil rights shone through as he advocated for education, not confrontation, to mend the divide between law enforcement and the public. He acknowledged good officers, but gave these a B+ for their initial overreach. By standing up to power-tripping cops with facts and composure, the man protected his son and highlighted a universal truth. Informed citizens can hold authority accountable, fostering a more respectful dialogue between police and the communities they serve. Like and subscribe for more police cam stories. 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