No, it's a big deal, because you're not allowed to be in this area. This is for authorized personnel only. That's not You would like to go in the in the lot. That's not true. There's there's there's there's there's there's no there's no sign saying authorized personnel [music] only. I'm just uh you know recording, you know, the daily routines of officers for unknown reasons. Well, again This this isn't an area that we have people >> There isn't really any signage that states that we can't be back here. It just says we can't A camera, a public parking lot, and an unexpected confrontation with the police. Yeah, no, I understand. But what I'm telling you is you can't just make an area restricted. It has to be restricted already. This is not a restricted area here. >> you're sadly mistaken. When the law is misunderstood, the consequences may not be just arguments, but legal liability. An independent journalist arrived at the town of Newburg Police Headquarters in Newburg, New York to conduct a First Amendment audit, testing whether police respect the right to film in public. What followed was a tense confrontation that erupted right outside the police station in New York. Guess the parking in the front. K9 unit right here. And this must be a hand-me-down. Also, the car is running. You know, so this must be a uh hand-me-down from the military. Hey, how are you today? Good. How are you? Uh you working here or something or Mhm. Well, yeah, technically, yeah. I am, but Can I help you with anything? No, I don't need any help with anything right now. Can I get your name and badge number though? >> Sure. K U H N. Shield 117. Can I ask you what you're doing? I'm taking video and picture. How you doing, sir? Of what? How you doing? You're not allowed to be You're not allowed to be in this area. Can Can I get your name and badge number? Uh you can you can read it right there, but you're not allowed to be You're not allowed to be in this area. Do you have any business here? I do have business here, yeah. >> What's your business? I don't have to tell you that. >> I don't have to tell you Hey, whoa whoa whoa. What's your business? Relax, man. It's not a big It's not that It's not that big of a deal. >> No, it is a big deal, because you're not allowed to be in this area. This is for authorized personnel only. That's not You would like to go in the in the lot. >> That's not true. There's there's there's there's there's there's no there's no sign saying [music] authorized personnel only, so No, you Well, I'm telling you that. So, you can go into the parking >> you can't just This is This is a This is a public This is a public parking lot, so what happens is Guyer Guyer, is that how I say that? This is This is a public parking lot. Yeah, because it's funded by taxpayer. It's not. You're wrong. >> You're wrong. >> You're wrong. You're wrong. Listen, buddy, we can go take a walk over here, and you can go stand over there. We can have this conversation over there. >> a walk over there if you'd like. There is no signs deeming this a restricted area. >> you. Yeah, you can't do that. >> I'm telling you. Okay. So, so then maybe you're having a hard time listening, okay? That's what the issue could be here. No. >> trying to tell you, bro. Let's go take a walk over here. That's it. You're not allowed to be Let's go take a walk over here. Yeah. The debate over whether the area was authorized or not quickly began to heat up. But before the argument could calm down, an unexpected question from the officer pushed the situation to an entirely new level of tension. What started as a simple conversation about filming in public was about to turn into a direct confrontation over authority and the law right outside the police station. Yeah, no, I understand. But what I'm telling you is you can't just make an area restricted. It has to be restricted already. This is not a restricted area here. >> you're sadly mistaken, pal. Okay. You're sadly mistaken. >> Okay. Why don't we get a supervisor out here? Uh why don't we walk over here where you're allowed to be? We can have an issue. Oh, what's the issue? Is that a threat? No, that's what I'm telling you right now. You're not allowed to be in this area, bro. I I I understand what you're saying, and I'm asking for a supervisor. >> You're not understanding. You're not understanding. >> your policy not state Does your policy >> a hard time. Do you have Do you have like you have you have issues or something like you No, I think I think you have I think you have I think you have some anger issues, buddy. >> dude. This guy came over here There's a There's a complete difference See, this is the contrast in America of you got cops like you, and then you got cops like you. Listen. Cops who want to escalate, and cops who want to de-escalate. We're trying to tell you very nicely. That's how good cops get hurt, because people like you, when they go in all gun ho Okay. Let me finish what I'm saying. I will just finish what I'm saying. Can I have your ID, please? So we know who we're talking to. No, you're not going to give me ID. I haven't committed a crime. Unless I've committed a crime. No. No. So, you see this this area, why do you think the public's not here? Why do you think the way we walk >> Cuz they're choosing not to be here? This is not a restricted This is not a It's authorized authorized I don't need to go look at it. I I've read it already. Authorized vehicles only. No, no, no, no. Authorized vehicles. I am not in a vehicle, as you can see. >> Watch out, your shoes are untied. I don't want you slipping and falling. Okay, I'm fine. This is not I'm not in a vehicle. So, here's the problem here. >> So, here's the problem. You're not You're telling me you're not going to tell me your business, right? That's what you're telling me? I'm I'm telling you right now that I'm a journalist. I'm going to tell you I'm a journalist working on a story, and that's that's as much I'm going to say. I'm engaging I'm engaging in a constitutionally protected activity. >> me who you are, correct? Because I Because I don't have to. Cuz right now you're a complete stranger. I got a stranger over my work area walking around videoing. I have no idea what your intentions are, correct? The exchange now began to revolve around legal terms that any officer should be expected to know. But what happened next made the atmosphere extremely awkward. And just minutes later, the situation unexpectedly escalated in a way no one anticipated. You'd like Am I Am I detained? Uh right now, yes, until we figure out for sure what you're doing here. >> So, you're telling me that I'm detained? Yes, until I can figure out who you are. Interesting. Okay, this is an unlawful detention, just so you know. Okay. Okay. >> I'm glad I can figure out what your true intentions are. You're telling me you're a journalist. So, can you can you can you tell me what crime Can you articulate a crime that I've committed? I don't have to detain for a crime. You're This is suspicious right now. So, suspicious Is suspicious a misdemeanor or a felony? Not suspicious activity right now. I got to try to find out what you're doing. >> activity, sir, a misdemeanor or a felony? Well, it all depends on how you want to spin it. It all depends on what you're doing, doesn't it? It's It's It's neither. I don't know I don't know what your business It's neither. It's neither. I'm here I'm here conducting my own business. Now I'm not free to leave. I'm being detained against my will unlawfully for no crime I've committed. Until we can prove what you're >> I'd like to speak to a supervisor, please. And since I'm being detained and since I'm being since I'm being detained since I'm being detained, I'm going to Absolutely. We'll have a supervisor come talk to you. Yeah. I mean, it it could have just been really easy, man. You could have just told us what you're >> You guys You guys are going above and above and beyond your authority. You have no authority to detain me. None. Zero. Listen, when I have a stranger walk around where I work >> That's not true. Hopefully, you'll learn something today. It doesn't matter if I'm a stranger or not. It doesn't matter. What does that matter? You You enforce You enforce the law. If I'm not breaking any laws, you have no business with me. Yeah, I but I I I'm a grown man, and I know how to walk through a parking lot. >> shoes are untied. You're grown, but your shoes are untied. I don't really That doesn't really go hand in hand with Okay. It doesn't. I'm sorry. Okay. Because I told you your shoes are untied. I'm trying to explain to you, and Okay. Hey, how are you, sir? Sergeant. Can you take me off of this unlawful detention, >> [music] >> Sergeant, before I'm I'm being unlawfully detained, so Yeah, no, he he No. No, this guy told me I was being detained. So, I'm sure as the sergeant would know, you can't detain me for no reason. I am a journalist. This is public. This is public. I don't have to. That's why. I've been very very decent with you guys though. After the tension reached its peak, a supervisor finally arrived to clarify the situation. But the question now was, would the matter be resolved peacefully, or was it about to become even more complicated? My officers are doing the right thing. You're in our parking lot taking photographs and everything. Not illegal, okay? But certainly something for us to be concerned about. Which is okay. Sure, yeah. There's a lot of stuff going on on everybody's part. Exactly. Well, unless it's unless it's unless it's restricted Okay. I'll let you finish. Mhm. Vehicles. Vehicles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. And like I told your officers, I have no problem with them coming up and making contact with me, voluntary contact. But when it comes to the point of an unlawful detention, now you're now you're holding up my freedom of movement. Yeah, but in all As a sergeant, you should know that, you know, your your officer here didn't know what reasonable articulable suspicion was. So, you know, he said he's never heard of it. You guys don't use that here. Is that true? No, what I said was I never heard the way you described the first one. Reasonable articulable suspicion. You said you didn't know what that was. Well, I'm going to I'm going to teach you something. In order in in in order to detain somebody, you need reasonable articulable suspicion. That's not That's not speaking the way I do. When you detain somebody, what's your what's your burden of proof? What do you have What do you What do you do? You just say You just go to random You just go to random people and say you're detained? You don't need to sit here and argue, okay? You guys are all set. All right. You guys can go. Take care, guys. Stay safe out there. Okay. Sergeant, listen. I'm just All I'm doing I I'm not I have no ill intent. I'm just You're free You're recording me, that's fine. You're also being recorded. I'm sure you already know that. So, again, just explaining to you at first we want to try to find out I'm not going to try and force you to give me your name. I'm not going to try and force you to give me identity. >> And I appreciate as the tension began to ease, the conversation shifted into a calmer direction. Soon after, it turned into a more open and straightforward exchange between the two sides. Hey, listen. I know you you you under you I know you're worried that I'm filming the cars. I'm a journalist. I'm I'm gathering content for a story. That's it. And I'm no ill intent, nothing like that. I'm just filming the police station around the police station, the different cars. I've never been here before. I'm independent. I'm independent. I'm independent, yeah. Okay. I have a bunch of outlets online that I post to, yeah. Uh-huh. And you're doing what what specific story are you doing? Well, to be honest with you, the story it's it's on the police department, right? But, you know, Is it your specific police department? About your specific police department today, yeah. I do this to a bunch of different police departments. And the whole point is is to highlight a sergeant like yourself who came in and de-escalate the situation. And to, you know, hold people accountable like your officer over there who wanted to escalate the situation. And and he didn't and he didn't know what You know a reasonable article of suspicion is, correct? >> Yes, there's two there's two ways to to for these situations to be handled. Look, I I've watched a lot of these videos where you get people I'm not saying this is you, but you do get people agitators trying to get some sort of reaction, normally a negative reaction because it's good views for their thing. I I get all that, okay? But, But, the point about what I want to make very clear to you, sergeant, is that you know, obviously, you guys doing stuff that you're not supposed to is going to get views. But, what I what I try and do is I'm trying to say, "Hey, listen. I'm going to be reasonable. I'm going to talk to you. I'm not going to spin off. I'm not going to curse at you. I'm not going to do anything that's going to try I'm not going to try and aggravate you. I'm just going to try and just stand firm in my rights and and and just do what I need to do in [music] a respectful manner, in a respectful manner. And then whatever your officers or whatever police department I'm filming on that particular day decides to do, it's on them. You know, people there are people who do what I do and they, you know, like to agitate a little bit. And, you know, they like to hey in both in every profession, exactly. At my profession, [music] what I'm doing is, like I said, it it They want to go crazy? Yes, that is good views. But, what I'm saying is you don't it doesn't have to be that way. I I prefer to have a good conversation like I'm having with you right now, sergeant. Like [music] I prefer to Listen, I I can understand that it's under No charges, no arrests, just a debate about rights and responsibilities. And the question still remains. How many more times will situations like this happen again? Up next, as soon as he appeared outside the Evesham Police Station, the cameraman said he was simply there to observe the officers' daily activities. But, after just a few short questions, the atmosphere quickly began to grow tense. What up, everybody? Hopefully gladly here. I'm here with Southeastern PA Community Watch. We're at Evesham, New Jersey Police Department. [music] Going to give it a little run-through. All right, I guess we just follow these two. These two slaves. fellow slaves Not that I'm any better than them. >> [cough] [clears throat] >> You're not recording. Please show me, huh? Yeah. I was wondering if I wanted it open today. It's Friday. Anything on the computer? There's something on it. The cameraman continued observing around the police station, but just a few minutes later his presence began to draw the attention of the officers. And when one of the officers approached him, what seemed like a normal conversation quickly turned into a more tense situation. We have two friends down over here. You're not really having problems with our building today. No, that's not. I I see you're recording. Um I'm Officer Forest with Evesham Police. I see you're recording. Is there something I can help you with? Yeah, I wondered if the township building was open today. It's not open with the holiday. Even though it's Friday, huh? Uh they observe the holiday either the Friday or the Monday. Depending if Saturday or Sunday. So, it's just the police station open today then? Is the library open? I'm not sure. You could check over there. I wanted to I thought they were in the same building though. It's the same building, but they're separate from us. They have their own hours and operation. Yeah, so where are you guys heading off to? I'm making contact with you. Oh, you came out purposely to make contact with us. You're here for a reason. What's up? What can I help you with? I'm just observing, see what our police do on a daily and how they prepare to go out and stuff. I'm just uh you know, recording, you know, the daily routines of our officers for any reasons. Okay. Well, can I get your names? Uh you could if I cared to give it. All right. Well, if you don't want to give it, could you I ask you to please move along? Well, again, This this isn't an area that we have people >> There isn't really any signage that states that we can't be back here. It just says we can't park. >> up with my supervisor. You can take it up with your supervisor. Yeah, could you do that? >> like me to get him here? Oh, you don't need to. I'm just saying Well, I'm asking you a simple question to please move along and you're not okay with that. So, I'll get my supervisor. Now, the real problem is is if you don't want people back here, then you need to post I will bring that up the chain of command. I will bring it up the chain of command. Am I in my wrong? Am I wrong? Look, I will bring it up to my chain of command, but I don't understand why you're giving me a problem. I'm asking you nicely We're not giving you a problem. We don't expect to be given a problem. We just, you know, we're out here. We're not doing anything wrong. Filming freely. The exchange between the cameraman and the officer began to grow tense when the order to leave the area was given. The cameraman immediately questioned the legal basis for that request. And as the argument showed no sign of ending, a decision was made to call a supervisor to the scene to clarify the situation. We're having a conversation here. No, ma'am. There's no refusing, you know. We'll happily move along. Then please do so, especially since you won't give me your information. Well, why would Is that a crime to you guys, information? It's not a crime. Are you doing Sorry, excuse me, I'm talking. You know, we we up by not putting signs out here. We're know we're stupid. We should do better than that. Okay, if you don't want us back here, why would you just say something like Why would you say something like that? Why would you slander somebody like that? Cuz that's what you're doing. No, I'm not. We're saying If you don't want us back here, then put signs up. >> you I'll bring it up to my chain of command, but in the meantime I need you to move along. But, now therein lies the problem is why do we need to move along? Because you're not allowed over here to just hang out. >> allowed over here to hang out, then you need to put signs up. >> signage should be up, you know. Anybody could wander in Like imagine Like imagine Wait. Right on. We were just observing the everyday routines. Right. Right. Right on. Right on. Attorney Right. Attorney General's Directive 2021-11. It just It was just announced about a week or two ago. Good. Good. Thanks, man. Thanks a lot. Appreciate you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nothing. It's nothing nefarious or anything. When the supervisor arrived, the tense atmosphere began to ease. The conversation shifted from arguing to explaining the rules and the lack of proper signage. But, soon after, the officers' reactions made the situation notable in a different way. Right. Right. Exactly. Well, at least he came out and and cleared up everything and power tripping and stuff like that. Yeah, it's not cool. It should never really happen. Hopefully, they're coming back out to apologize to us and to turn the car off at least. You're coming back out to apologize for you the way you treated us? No? Yes? I'm sorry they wasted your time, sir. Thank you for your cooperation. >> [laughter] >> Weirdo. >> [laughter] >> So weird. My god. You're not allowed back here because I said so. No, that doesn't work. Well, >> [laughter] >> at least their supervisor had a little bit of a head on him over there. He wasn't really That assistant manager, yeah. Yeah. No mean, and it shouldn't be. I mean, I mean, if you're if you're a hero and you're brave, then you shouldn't have any problems like like like the guy said. You got cameras out here, dude. Whatever, you know. Oh, cool. Oh, that's cool. So, this is a Dude, you can file a report right here. Interesting. Uh, yeah, I don't know exactly if all reports can get filed filed there, but This is for the This is for the chat section. File it and put your comment below where the arrow is pointing. In the end, the cameraman left the Evesham Police Department, concluding the audit with the hope that situations like this will help law enforcement better understand citizens' [music] constitutional rights in the future. Citizens can sue police under Section 1983 [music] when their rights are violated. Officers who break the law may face financial liability, disciplinary action, or even termination. In a society governed by the rule of law, citizens' freedoms and the authority of law enforcement must exist [music] side by side and respect each other. Hey everyone, what do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]