I'm only going to tell you once. >> Did you hear the man ask you to stop filming? Did you hear him ask you to stop? >> If he can give me a statute with that policy, I'll be glad to get out of here. But if it's just building policy, you know it and I know it. I do not have to abide by it. And I tried to peacefully explain that to him. >> The police thought they could give orders and everyone would simply obey. But this time, they ran into a citizen who knew exactly what his rights were. >> You can request to leave this property before I put you in jail. I'm not telling you again. >> You're in a supposed place, but we don't want you here. You have to leave. Do you understand? Do you understand how that policy works? Works like that. >> When a citizen's rights are challenged, a simple question arises. Who is really following the law? As soon as the camera moved deeper into the area of Cruise Terminal 3 at the Port of Tampa, the atmosphere suddenly became tense. Watchful eyes began to appear and several staff members quickly approached demanding that the filming stop immediately. >> All right, this way. Hey, this way, everyone. Follow 9/11 >> You cannot film right there, ma'am. >> I'm filming, yeah. >> Okay, I'll ask you to stop the camera down. >> Yes, sir. >> You can't be photographing this part the building. Please >> Why not? >> Yes, sir. >> You can't be photographing in this part of the building. This is a secure area in there. >> Yeah, I'm not going to go in there. >> Okay, well, the camera I hope you're not filming because they'll come up and tell you to stop. >> Okay. Yeah, no, you're fine. >> Okay, thank you. >> All right, they've provided us some water here. >> It seemed that after the initial warning, the situation had settled down. But just a few minutes later, a police officer appeared with a completely different attitude. And this time, it wasn't a reminder anymore. It was an order to turn the camera off immediately. >> Sorry, you got to turn your camera off. You cannot film out here. Sir, you cannot Sir, you cannot film out here. You can't film out here. Okay, please turn it off. >> It's not on. I'm just looking through it. >> You can't film out here. >> All right, sir. You've been told not to film and yet you're still filming. Why is that? Why is that? Can you hear me? You need to leave the property. This gentleman right here can escort you if necessary. >> Did you hear the man ask you to stop filming? Did you hear him ask you to stop? >> Can I please look at my camera? >> Will you put Are you getting on a cruise ship or are you Are you just here filming? >> Somebody I know is leaving on a cruise ship today, but >> Somebody I know is leaving, too. Down the stairs and out of here. I'm only going to tell you once. >> After being told to leave the area and even threatened with arrest for trespassing, the person filming continued to ask a simple question. What law actually prohibits filming here? But instead of a clear answer, the situation quickly began to escalate as the argument shifted in a different direction. >> Trespassed off this property and if you don't start picking your feet up and leaving, I'm going to put you in jail. >> Be passport? >> Yeah, be passport. >> Okay, do you have a um >> No, I don't. I'm going to tell you one more time, go down the stairs and exit this property. That's the last time I'm going to tell you. >> good day, sir. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Isn't that public property? >> No, it's not. It's private property. >> Who owns it? >> want private the Port Tampa Bay. You want private property? Go up on the other side of that grass and that's aquarium parking lot property. That is not ours. We don't care what you do in that parking lot. But right here this belongs to Port Tampa Bay. >> So, Port of Tampa Bay is owned by who? >> They are their own entity, government entity. >> Gentlemen, you can't video tape on this property. You cannot video tape on this property. You're on private property, sir. >> I'm not touching you, sir. I'm pointing to you. >> Um can I request a supervisor? Okay. >> You can request to leave this property before I put you in jail. I'm not telling you again. >> Wait. >> I'm Sergeant I'm I'm sorry. I'm Deputy Anthony Esposito. >> Where is the property at? >> Uh anywhere over there in that parking lot. You'll >> Okay, but this is >> Make me tell you again and see what happens. Make me tell you again. >> Okay. >> Get off the property. Get off the property. Get off the property. I already told you. Get off the property, sir. If you're going to video tape, video off the property. Video tape I'm honestly letting you video tape. Video tape all you want. Yes, you are. >> Hold on. This guy wants to go, but I don't want to get hit by the bus. It's already going. Let's go. >> Okay. So, if I go if I stand right here You try me and see what happens. If I stand right here and you call for a supervisor? >> I ain't calling for anybody. If you want a supervisor, call one. Get off my property before I I'll you again. >> I thought you said this wasn't your property. >> Anywhere up there is >> Name and badge number? Name and badge number? >> The officer continued repeating that this area was under the authority of Port Tampa Bay and that filming here could lead to an arrest for trespassing. But as the exchange showed no signs of ending, new individuals suddenly appeared bringing even more questions about authority and responsibility in this area. >> They're telling us that all of that is private property. Yeah, but but why are why are they suggesting that we don't film? They just told us they didn't want us to film, aggressively manhandled both of these guys. >> And you don't need permission to >> If you're doing a story, you need to contact them. Usually if you contact the people you're in the middle of a business day. But normally if you're going to do something investigative, they don't want you to be there. That's how they try to block your right to be able to do that. >> Yeah, we're perfectly within our legal rights to be there. I'm I'm on the phone right now with Hillsborough County Sheriff. >> You're you're absolutely right, too. But once again, when it comes out of private property and somebody asks you to leave, that's >> Yeah, so why don't we take the aquarium for instance? Technically the property is owned by the city, however, it is occupied by a private business. So therefore, that private business has the authority to ask people to leave their property. >> Okay. All I know is this area is public accessible. No nobody from the Port Authority or anybody asked >> No, ma'am. There's a Tampa Police Department unit here and somebody from the aquarium. >> I don't know what the situation is with the port. That is something that >> Is is Is there a problem here with us here? >> Hey, now you're on our property here. >> That's up to them. You can give me two seconds. I'll talk. I'll talk. So yeah, that would be the aquarium, you know, and they have the aquarium as a client in this case. >> But I'm I'm I'm not sure why there's sheriff's deputies here if it's a Tampa Police Department thing. Uh the Tampa Police So they don't these guys out here don't have a supervisor? They're unsupervised? >> As more people began joining the discussion, the explanations about land ownership and the authority of different agencies only made the situation more confusing. But just as things seemed to be calming down, another unexpected development suddenly unfolded. >> That's what we're trying to go through right now. All right. Okay. Now how did >> Well, like I said, I can't say anything about that, but as far as the parking lot area goes >> Forgive me here. Baron Nastie? >> Baron Nastie. >> What's your ID number? >> I'm a detective. >> Well, I see that you're a detective. Do you have like a member ID? >> I don't I I have a city payroll which you can pull if you need to, but I'm I don't know the number. >> have a number that They don't have a number that's attached >> Like a badge number? Yeah. >> Um where are you I don't have any ID. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah, it is. >> And they're around the back. >> The corner sitting spot all the way down. >> Who wants to park? >> Towards us. >> Okay. So we do know if this is >> Uh I I I'm not sure. Am I going to be here or are we asked to leave here? >> No, I I have to ask you to leave the area. >> Okay, yeah, we're being asked to leave by the aquarium here, too. So, I won't be here for the deputy. Um I'll just uh I'll be in the file some complaints and uh and then talk to a supervisor about it then, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be fine. >> In the end, the journalist decided to leave the area to prevent the situation from escalating further. But, the questions about the right to film, the authority of the police, and how the law is applied here still remain unanswered. Up next, an independent journalist walks into the Caldwell County government building with a camera in hand. At first, it seems like a normal visit, but within minutes, that camera begins to draw the attention of people inside the building. >> Look like a bank right there. Okay. So, where are we in the Are we in the city of Lenoir? >> Yeah, we're in the city of Lenoir, but this looks like a county building. Yeah. All right. Well, hello, ma'am. How are you? No, I'm just looking to see what's available for the public in the forms and stuff you got. Thank Thank you, ma'am. >> After walking around the building and speaking with a few staff members, everything initially seemed quite normal. But just a few minutes later, the presence of the camera began drawing more attention from people inside the building. And from that point, the situation gradually turned into a debate no one expected. No, I'm fine. I'm just checking out everything. Perhaps you guys can. Is there any Is there any property here that's um classified as a low deal? Yeah, like a land grant or a land patent. Okay, there it it they're few and far between. Um and usually the people have held onto the property for 100 or 200 years, then in the family. So, um I always like to ask to see cuz I I find that kind of stuff neat interesting. But Is there zoning here or Well, e- either way, I would ask for both. Right. Yeah, I was over there earlier. Okay. Uh uh any of like a low deal title, like a land patent or a land grant? Yeah, like I said, they're very rare. Um you you hardly ever hear about them anymore. And usually what you do hear about it's like Indian reservations, that that type of thing. But back in the day when when people would get land from the government, they'd get like a what's called a land patent or a land grant, and that entitled the owner to all the rights of the property. Whereas now when when we buy real estate, we're missing like the mineral rights and the lumber rights and and that sort of thing. So, it's not actually private property, which is why there's no zoning private property. It's residential, agricultural, that sort of thing. So. >> There's not There's nothing labeled There's nothing labeled what you called it. >> As the exchange with staff began to grow tense, the debate over building policy and the right to film in a public place showed no sign of ending. And just a few minutes later, the situation escalated to the point where police were called to the scene. >> Oh, come on in. I'm sorry. You come right on in here. >> What's going on, guys? >> I'm Mark. How you doing? >> Want you all to step out here for me? >> I'm going to try to talk right here. I feel safer right here. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You come on in. Let's talk. >> Yeah, let's go in. >> Absolutely. Uh what's wrong? >> Uh let me get out of your way, sir. >> Just uh since you guys have a need or a service from our office, >> Yes. >> Okay, what's that? >> Ma'am, we're on public property out to film. I tried to explain that to him, and I think maybe the issue here is the lack of understanding of my freedom right here. >> Well, let me let me let me go inside this. You can film and record on public property, but >> Thank you. >> He said it was posted one time. It's not posted now. >> When did When did it post? So, you can't explain to me how that policy overrides my First Amendment. >> That's what I was trying to explain to him. That policy isn't law. If he can give me a statute with that policy, I'll be glad to get out of here. But if it's just building policy, you know it and I know it. I do not have to abide by it. And I tried to peacefully explain that to him. He did not want to hear it. Yeah, come on. Or you can come out the other way. He didn't want to hear that. >> Okay. >> And I tried to peacefully explain that to don't to >> lot of it, it's uh it's been our policy for a number of years. >> Okay. Yeah, and it's just like the same thing like the courthouse is a public building. Mhm. We don't allow cell phones or video recording or anything like that. >> Is there a sign that says >> No, it's a it's an order in our or not in our county building. >> Is it a law? >> No, it's an order in our county building. >> Yeah, it's an order of law enforcement, not a order of law enforcement. >> Right. Did you tell him that? >> That's policy. >> Policy isn't law. You know this and I know this. So, this conversation should have been over 2 minutes ago. >> I'm not trying to argue with you. >> I'm not arguing with you. But I want to say this. If he don't want you, he's the restricted area. Even though this is a public place, if he don't want you here, you have to leave. >> understand? Do you understand how that law suit works? >> What's that? >> Cuz then you'll be part of that law suit if you're going to back him up on that. >> I'm just I'm I'm just telling you what his what his position is. >> But as long as I have any services that I need from anybody back here, as long as I'm not interfering with any business going on, I am >> Well, obviously your interference is on me. There ain't the only interference that >> have an ID on you? >> I don't have it on me. Well, I do, but I'm not giving it cuz I've committed a crime. That's my fourth amendment right. >> You should know that. >> Okay. >> I don't want to be a problem. I want them to understand I can film in public. That's all I want. And as law enforcement, I need you to back me up there. I haven't called anybody >> every right to film. I'm not arguing with that. >> Also, by law, if I ask you for ID, you don't have to give me your ID >> without the commission of a crime. Reasonable or articulable suspicion. Do you have it? >> Hey, I've read the same crimes book obviously you've read. You don't have >> Absolutely. So, you know that I know. >> Okay. >> But going back and forth with an attorney probably won't work out too well for you without the commission of a crime. >> Okay. I understand. Thank >> Now, >> if are you guys business done here? >> As soon as I'm done, I'll be on my way. I have >> When the police arrived, the debate quickly shifted to a completely different issue, a demand for identification. But the person filming argued that he had no obligation to provide ID without being suspected of committing a crime. From that moment on, the exchange became even more tense. >> How you doing, brother? How you doing? Oh, absolutely. I'm David. Nice to meet you. >> I'm Reggie. >> Nice to meet you, brother. >> So, I work with the police department here in New Orleans. Um I know it. Yeah, nope, nope. You're doing You're You're perfectly fine. You're You're perfectly fine doing what you're doing. I have no problem with it at all. Um just of course there are some restricted access areas. Absolutely. Right, that are marked and and are locked. So, can I ask you a question? And I I fully agree with everything you just said. If he asked me to leave and I'm not done getting services that they provide as public employees, how does that work without it being a lawsuit and things like that? And the editing offer service to you. Oh, yeah, yeah, we have. L- L- Listen, we've been doing this for 3 years. I've gone to 10 different states. I've got a thousand videos in buildings just like this. I know exactly where to go and exactly what to do. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. You guys have a great day and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. W- W- H- H- Hold on. Let me just clarify something. We're We're journalists. Okay. >> Obviously, they can be in this area as long as the building is up and unlocked. Okay? They just can't be in there if you're in the back of this area. They don't have to have any type of business here. >> After hearing the full story from both sides, the officer finally clarified the situation right there at the scene. No arrest was made, and the person filming was allowed to remain in the building without further interference. A citizen may file a lawsuit against police under Section 1983 if their rights are violated. Officers who violate those rights may face civil liability, disciplinary action, or even termination. A civilized society is not one without disagreements, but one where disagreements are resolved through understanding, the rule of law, and mutual respect. 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