from you until you leave the building, please, cuz you're recording. Can you turn it off? You can't touch my property. What? I'm not touching. I'm asking you for it. Or either you have to leave the courthouse with it. >> some of your credentials and uh on who you are. No, I'm not interested in that. Thank you, though. When a citizen decides to hold the government accountable with a camera, the reaction of some officers can end up making the situation far bigger than it needed to be. We have a right to record our public officials in the course of their public duties. I'm here to do an open records request. I'm here to document me doing the open records request. Well, sir, you have to give us a little information on who you are and who you a journalist who fool you with or something. When power is abused in front of a camera, the consequences are not just arguments. They can lead to investigations, disciplinary actions, and even multi-million dollar lawsuits. A man walks into the Osceola County Courthouse with a camera and a simple public records request. But within minutes, the calm atmosphere quickly turns into a tense confrontation when staff realize he is recording. Just call back next week for an appointment. Okay. Thank you. Hi, ma'am. I'm just looking to do a records request for um What's the camera for? It's to document my records request. >> cannot record here, so you can turn it off. I'm allowed to record here. >> Not here. I'm pretty sure of it. >> Okay, then I'm not going to help you because you're not going to record here. A simple records request suddenly makes the atmosphere in the office tense. As the camera continues recording, staff refuse to assist and security is quickly called in. But instead of turning the camera off, the man keeps questioning his right to film, and the confrontation inside the building begins to heat up. Sir. Sir. I'm going to confiscate this from you until you leave the building, please, cuz you're recording. Can you turn it off? No, I cannot. You can't touch You can't touch my property. What? I'm not touching. I'm asking you for it. Or either you have to leave the courthouse with it. You can't record inside the courthouse, okay? This is the public defender. The courthouse is on the fourth and fifth floor. This is the courthouse building, sir. There's no recording. >> Go ahead and turn the camera off, please. Can you please go ahead and turn the camera off, sir? >> No, I won't turn the camera off. I'll leave if you could show me a judge's order. Sir, this is a public courthouse. You're right, but you cannot record inside here. You go ahead and turn the camera off, okay? >> Anywhere that's publicly accessible, I'm allowed to be with my camera. It's the first amendment right to press. I'm here to do an open records request. It's perfectly legal. I do it all the time. Sir, go ahead and turn the camera off, please. >> I'm not turning the camera off. Are you Can you not understand English? I do. S23 >> [music] >> to S2 and 1, can you come down to the public defender's office ASAP, please? On four. You want to call your sergeant? >> He's coming. Okay. If you're here for a business, sir, that's fine. You can do whatever, but to record >> [clears throat] >> You ever heard of Smith versus uh the city of Cummings? We have a right to record our public officials in the course of their public duties. I'm here to do an open records request. [music] I'm here to document me doing the open records request. It's perfectly legal. I do it in public defender offices all over the state. Even ones in courthouse buildings. You're not allowed to record in the courthouse. This is true. But in the public defender's office, you're allowed to. The man continues to assert his rights and explain why he is there. But his words do little to calm the situation. Instead, [music] the exchange has grown increasingly tense. And just minutes later, another officer arrives, pushing the situation into a new development. You walked down the hall recording, sir. He did. We've seen you We've seen you with your camera up, sir. He has his camera and he's recording. He won't put it away. And I heard he was recording down the hallway, so I I absolutely was. He doesn't hear that. You can't do that, sir. Doesn't You cannot record You cannot record in the courtroom. Okay, you cannot record in the courtroom. This is true. In the public defender's office and general areas where the public can go, you're allowed to record. He's walking around recording in the building, so Hi, how you doing? Good, sir. I told him I'm here to do an open records request in the general areas where I'm allowed to be. I'm allowed to record. First amendment right to free press. >> in with your camera, though, sir. And you're recording through the You You're saying you're one place, but you're walking through with the camera. Absolutely. Any >> through security? Are you guys security? Are you guys security? Yeah. Listen. Walked in with it. Was it on when you walked through security, sir? >> No, I turned it off and I walked through security, then I came down the hallway. After I came down the hallway, I did not turn it towards the security checkpoint. Right. Um so, anywhere in the general area where the public's allowed be that I can see, plain view doctrine, I'm allowed to record. >> Sir, I don't agree with that, but okay. You have your ID with you, sir? Uh no, sir, I don't. Am I suspected of a crime? I just want to know who you are cuz you're going to try to do a records request, so that that's needed as well, so No, records requests can done be done anonymously. Chapter 119, Florida State Statutes. >> Okay. Well, let's see what they can give you that. Okay. Don't You can't film their procedures or our security procedures as well. I'm allowed to film anything I can see. Okay. From the public, just like the plain view doctrine, anything you can see where you're allowed to be could be used as evidence. >> You went to law school? I'm a law student, yes, sir. Where at? Well, I self self-teach. Self-study. >> [music] >> Self-study. >> Okay. So. Uh you can do that, but Yeah, anybody can read a book. >> [laughter] >> That's right. Jailhouse attorneys. Yep. Absolutely. So, let's see if they give you your records request. I've been I've been waiting. They moved away from the window because I guess cuz your camera. Well, they're they're they're public officials. They're on camera all over. So, that's not an issue. You just can't The man continues to present his arguments while security and the officers stand firm on the opposite side. Neither side shows any sign of backing down, and the tension inside the building keeps rising. But just minutes later, the situation begins to shift when the officers decide to end the argument in their own way. through the courthouse with your camera on. Is Is that a crime? No. Is that a crime? Like it says, security reasons, sir. Okay. Well, security reasons don't trump the Constitution. Yeah. Yeah, I see. You can't record. Right. But you're right, but the thing is He walked down the hallway with it on. You cannot through the security No, I'm not going over there. Okay. She's not going to assist you, sir, cuz you are recording her. That's why she's not assisting you, so They're not going to assist him cuz he's recording. So, we need to go, sir. Cuz they they already said they're not going to They're not going to service you cuz you're recording. >> Okay, so let me get this right. They're refusing an open records request. >> Well, sir, they're you're recording them, so they have the right to refuse if you're going to record them. Is Is that Nobody wants to be recorded You have to have their written permission. You know that. If you're a law student, you have to have written permission to record somebody if they don't want to be recorded. >> They're refusing to service you cuz they do not want to be recorded, so they're asking you to leave. Okay, hang on one You have to have written permission to film somebody in public, you're saying, sir? Is that what you just said? You have someone's job, sir. Is this a public building? Are they public employees getting paid on tax dollars? Yes or no? It's a government building, sir. It's a government building and they're asking you to leave, so we need to we need to go. I don't have all day. >> Who's asking Who's asking me to leave? They are, sir, cuz you're recording them. She says, "I'm not coming up there cuz he's recording me." Okay, so wait a minute. Are you trying to trespass me, then? They're not trespassing you, sir. They're just saying they're not going to service you, so we can't sit here and argue about it for 8 hours. They're asking you to leave cuz we all have other things to do, so Okay, well, I don't have to leave, though. Well, you don't You could put that down, too. You don't have to do that, either, so but of course you want to, so therefore, you can't get what you need because you're doing that, so >> Okay. By this point, the argument has reached its limit with neither side willing to back down. Questions about authority and regulations continue to be raised, but instead of clear answers, the officers begin to lose patience. And just seconds later, the situation suddenly escalates as they decide to step in directly, forcing the encounter to end on their terms. So, let's go. So, am I being trespassed, then? >> You're not being trespassed, sir. She told you you need to leave. Let's go. She told you you need to leave. Let's go. Yeah. Are you putting your hands on me? Are you putting your hands on me? Is that battery? What's your name? Gonzalez, what's your badge number? It's exactly what it is. Let's go. We're not going to have this conversation. Putting your hands on me? Where is your supervisor at? I want to see him right now. Yeah, well, he'll he'll meet you outside the building. Okay, great. Let me speak to him again. Am I allowed to sit here? Can you turn that off? You can try it. You need to You can't record in this You got to go. You got to go. Well, you can put that down and do whatever you need to do in this building. Oh, so you can't record in this building? Well, Is that a law? You need to Let's go. Where's the supervisor at? Okay. You can go. This is security. You can't record right here. So, you need to go. Okay. This is security. Okay. This is This section you cannot record. That's fine. You can record me. I don't care. So, you're putting your hands on me. Battery. >> in this Am I being trespassed? Yes or no? >> No. You can You don't have to leave. You're being told to leave if you have that on. You can't This is security. You can't. Come on. Do you have a law stating that? I can't be interrogated here. Okay. Let me see the supervisor. That's fine. I'll come back in if I don't see him. After being escorted out of the building, the man continues recording and asked to speak with a supervisor to address the officers putting their hands on him. Although the confrontation inside the courthouse has ended, he states that he will continue pursuing the matter and submit the entire video as evidence. Up next, a man walks into a government building with a camera in hand and what seems like a routine public records request, but within minutes the presence of the camera makes some staff members visibly uncomfortable. Hey, how you doing, ma'am? Good. I'm here to do a public records request if I could. Okay, that goes to administration. [music] Go down to the second floor. You need to exit the elevator and make a right. I can't do it here at the agency. Administration is on the second [music] floor. Well, I understand that, but uh South Carolina law allows me to come >> recorded? Um I think so. There's a camera right here. >> I'm talking about your camera. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to need you to step out. Okay. >> know what you want to use that for. Well, I'm a I'm a journalist, so I'm doing content for a story. I understand that. I need you to give me permission to um Oh, you don't need to. You don't need [music] to. As soon as you go to work for like the government, you give us permission. >> Okay, I'll get you I'll get the directions for you. You can step out. [music] >> Okay. Okay. Step out. Okay. Can I wait right here? You can step out unless you want to turn your camera It's just my camera that's the issue? Yes, sir, cuz I don't know what you're going to use it for. I don't want my face anywhere I don't [music] approve. Okay. All right. Well, I'll I'll just wait here then. Can you go get her cuz I'm not going to um I'm not going to have this. As the camera continues recording, staff members become increasingly uncomfortable and repeatedly ask the man to leave or turn it off. From that moment on, the conversation begins to heat up as others in the office start paying attention and getting involved. Uh yeah, I just wanted to do a public record request. We have It's online. The form is online that you fill out. >> [music] >> www.orangeburgcounty.org. The form is there that you You fill it out and then you send it to us and [music] then we can go from there. Yeah, I realize that's Do you Is that on? This one's on. >> I I don't want to be on camera. Oh, well, you work for the government, so it's >> Yeah, but I don't want to be on that camera. Oh, well, then you have to work in a private sector, not for the government. >> I don't want to You know, I don't want to be videoed this morning on that camera. Who are you with? I'm a journalist. Okay, but I don't want to be on that camera right now and I'm going to ask you if you don't mind to go down to administration where our county administrator's office is located on second floor Okay. >> speak with them. Uh we we're not allowed to be on camera right now. Oh, you're not? >> No. Why Why is that? >> No, we're not supposed to be on camera. We have a spokesperson for the county and they're the only ones who speak with people about the county. We don't do that. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, but it's not illegal or anything. >> I don't know. I'm saying we don't Yeah. I'm telling you it's not. >> Okay. Yeah. It's actually part of our right as American citizens to watch over our government officials. >> And that's fine, but you know, right now like I said, if you would go down I and I'll take you down to administration >> No, I'll go down I'll go I'll go down there and and have them call up here to let you know what the law is so that way you guys can fulfill the request for me. >> Thank you, but like I said, the form is online. www.orangeburgcounty.org. >> Yeah, no, every city does that, but unfortunately in the state of South Carolina, the law says I I don't have to go online. >> Okay, that's fine. Okay. And like I said, I'll I'll I'll be back. All right, thank you so much. Mhm. The atmosphere grows tense as some staff members begin to step in and closely monitor the situation. And just minutes later, the matter is no longer just a simple records request as others in the building are called in to deal with it. South Carolina public records law. Yes, sir, can I help you? Excuse me? Can I help you? No, did I ask you for help? State and federal laws in accordance with reasonable rules concerning time and place of access. I'm already being helped, so you can go back to work. Thank you. I just I want to know if I can help you with something. I'm sorry, did I all of a sudden ask you for help and I didn't hear myself say that? I don't need your help. Thank you. Hey, how you doing? Doing good. Um I need you to send somebody over here and uh hurry. I I got something over here. Yeah. [laughter] Okay. I got a gentleman over here with a camera and um he's been up here all morning. Some staff members begin to grow concerned and decide to call for additional personnel to handle the situation. Just minutes later, questions about the man's identity and purpose arise, completely shifting the direction of the exchange. And when police begin to join the conversation, it becomes clear that things are about to take a much more tense turn. Uh Could you give me some of your credentials and and on who you are? No, I'm not interested in that. Thank you, though. Hello. In in administrative office. All right. Well, sir, you have to give us a little information on who you are and who you're journalist who you're with or something. Really? When did they change the Constitution that said I had to do anything? I don't have to answer any questions from any man unless I'm uh suspected of a crime. That's the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. Well, um Thank you, though. Who is it that you want to see? Um I wanted to see the finance people. But they told me I had to come down here. So, now I came down here. And now I'm waiting on these ladies or whoever's here >> [music] >> to assist me. So, that that's what I'm doing. Okay. All right, what what's what's going on, sir? I have no clue. What? Are you You're recording? Absolutely. Okay. All right, what what are you What kind of business are you here to handle? I'm here for a public records request and to gather content on the story that I'm working on. Other than that, I don't really answer any questions. I just come here and and request records from the people I need to request. I don't want to sit here and tell 50 people what I'm doing. Thank you, guys, though. If you guys need to see the law surrounding what it is I'm doing, I have a Department of Justice memo right here. Everything's highlighted. Feel free to look it over. And uh just let them know whenever they're ready to either take my request or make the ladies in the finance office take my request, you let me know, okay? Questions about identity, credentials, and authority continue to be raised while the man remains firm in his position. The debate over the law and proper procedures grows increasingly tense, and just minutes later, the officers decide to contact their superiors to clarify the situation. Signs wouldn't help me, either. Oh. Signs wouldn't help me, either. Well, if they say there's no recording inside of this building, Well, if you just read anywhere the public's allowed, the press is allowed. What I just read in your paperwork, if you read it, all of that is referred to for recording law enforcement in their public capacity. Public official, Smith v. City of Coming. Sir, I hear you. All right, which I'm trying to help you. Okay. I'm giving you what you want. Okay. Okay? Mhm. But when the signs go up and says no recording, you will not be able to come inside the building and record. No, I will. No, you won't. No, I'm I'm going to. Okay. All right, that's fine. Here's your FOIA request for the information you're asking for. This is the [music] FOIA officer for the county. Okay, somebody going to talk to me cuz I need to get it from the finance department. I don't Can you put on here what records you need? Mhm. And you fill out the FOIA. You contact her. She is the FOIA for the county. And you can contact Okay. And she will get you what you need. Hold on, let me show you the South Carolina law says you're good with law. Sir. Sir. Mhm. I don't want to see no more laws. I'm telling you what you need to do. Okay, I can read it to you. Sir, I don't need to see any more laws. If you're trying to get records, this is what they said you need to do to get the records you requested. >> Are you law enforcement by any chance? >> not, sir. Okay. Any person has a right to inspect, copy, or receive any public record of a public body and reasonable rules concerning time and place of access. Okay, so I can come here and I can ask to inspect the record. [music] I don't have to call her. I I understand. >> Okay. That's South Carolina law. >> I'm telling you what the county administration building, the officers said. They don't follow South Carolina law? >> [music] >> They said you need to fill out the FOIA. Okay. >> them you wanted to see records. Mhm. >> They said you need to fill out the FOIA. Some information is eventually provided. Procedures are explained more clearly and the situation gradually cools down. However, the encounter still leaves many questions about how [music] public agencies handle requests from citizens. When constitutional rights are violated, citizens may file [music] lawsuits against police under Section 1983. Officers found to have violated those rights can face financial liability, disciplinary action, or even termination. Society can only function fairly when the rights of citizens and the responsibilities of government authorities [music] are respected mutually. Hey everyone, what do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, [music] subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]