What's your name? I'm not giving my name, officer. >> Then I'd like you to leave cuz they want you to leave, sir. Well, I need to speak to a sergeant. Like we said, all we want to do is get your name and then you're free to take off and go. What is my name going to do? One sign, one suspicious phone call, and just minutes later, an entire team of officers rushed in as if they were about to arrest a dangerous [music] criminal. According to this, because we got HIPAA issues with the fact that this is a medical facility. We have to be outside. Officer, listen hear me out. >> Come on. I'll I'll do it. When the truth is distorted, [music] just one small mistake can instantly turn it into a shocking case of abuse of power. He'd barely stepped inside when a man holding a strange sign started following him, blocking the camera. Yet, that same man said, "You're allowed to film." So, what exactly are they trying to hide? But I have a right to I have a right to do it, though. >> Not in here. Not according to state law. I've been state law. You want me to show it to you? The state law says we can. Police showed up immediately citing [music] HIPAA, citing laws, and insisting this is not a public place. A sudden shift that made [music] the situation far more unpredictable. Oh, that's fine. So, you're going to have to turn that down. So, so Look, we can step outside and you can keep that running, but you can't have it out here. So, you're going to allow me to speak? Look, as soon as you have to turn that off, we'll step outside. Right, but I have a right to I have a right to do it, though. >> Not in here. Not according to state law. I've been state law. You want me to show it to you? The state law says we can do it. >> Not in here. According to this, because we got HIPAA issues with the fact that this is a medical facility. We have to be outside. Officer, listen hear me out. >> Come on. I'll I'll No, I I'd rather talk to you right here. >> you out out here. I'd rather talk to you right here. Right out here. No, I'm not going to come out there. Well, then you didn't have to leave, regardless. I Well, I got official business to conduct. >> from here. No, I haven't been. When? When do you have this trespass? >> know. I don't know. I never was trespassed, ever. Well, are you trespassing here now? No, he can't He can't trespass me. Not when I have official business. >> Okay. Any business can can have you trespass, regardless of what your reasons is. Not public property, sir. >> This isn't public. This is. This isn't private. This is This is Cook County, sir. That's correct. Who owns the county? The people. No, sir. Sir, I just went through this in North Riverside. >> Let's discuss that. >> Trust me, man. I know exactly what I'm doing, man. Let's discuss that. I suggest you contact a sergeant. >> Officer, we'll come right back in. Let's discuss it. Well, that's what I'm saying. You should contact your sergeant. >> out here. >> I don't want to, sir. I don't want to. I got official business, sir. Officer, what's your name? Sir, I'm not trying to be difficult with you. I'm I'm not, either. I'm trying to abide by what they need and what you need. So, I need to compromise with both of you and I would like to discuss it out here. But you're not understanding what I'm saying. Your first thing is >> going to hear it in here. But you just heard his side in here. >> All I heard him say was yes. And right. And And you're coming in trying to enforce a rule without upholding the Constitution you swore to. No, I'm not going to come out. >> [laughter] >> I'm just not going to do it. Tension erupted when the officers demanded ID to verify a band that might not even exist. A vague accusation that nearly turned a simple recording into a highly controversial arrest. You've been trespassed. I haven't [clears throat] been trespassed. >> to confirm that. Well, you You confirm it through You confirm it with your people. >> it by knowing who you are. Huh, I never gave no officers my name, ever. They are saying that you are a person who's been trespassed. I haven't been trespassed from here at all. >> What's your name? I'm not giving my name, officer. Then I'd like you to leave cuz they want you to leave, sir. Well, I need to speak to a sergeant. >> No, you don't. I do. >> No, you don't. Yes, I do. And it's part of your policy when I request one. >> There is that part of the policy? Yes, it is, sir. >> Which policy is that? The policy when a a member of the public requests a supervisor. >> has a different policy. So, you're not willing to do it? I I'll call him, but I'm not required to is what I'm telling you. You're not required to contact a sergeant when a member of the public asks for one. >> doesn't state that I have to contact a sergeant for any reason other than my request. You're required Okay, so but you will call one, though. I said it would be absolutely. Okay, cool. I'll be >> Can I get your name so I can let them know who's asking? Oh, you can just tell them a member of the public, a concerned citizen. >> cool. Just tell them a concerned citizen. >> Concerned citizen, can I call you Bill? I mean, if you want to. I want to I want to respect you and give you your name. Sir. Sir would be great. Sir would be great. There you go. So, has this happened before somewhere else? That's what I was told. Yeah. Okay. So, what happened then? Same I mean, um Same thing, you left? Not Not necessarily. I was just No, that's what I was told to ask. I was just in North Riverside like 3 days ago. >> Yep, that's what she said. That same young lady that you was just talking to, they begged North Riverside to arrest me. You know what those officers told them? Long as he's not committing a crime, we're not going to arrest him. >> And out here >> [laughter] >> And I agree with So, they honored their oath. >> Out here it's not an issue because the only issue was inside where >> It's not a It's not a crime, sir. >> I didn't say it was a crime, but they still have the the opportunity and the uh ability to have you leave for violation of their policy. >> Absolutely, sir. Just like you want me to uphold my policy Absolutely, man. I want you to uphold the Constitution that you swore to. When the sergeant arrived, it seemed like everything would finally be clear. But no, he acknowledged the FOIA rights, yet still looked for ways to restrict filming inside. Appreciate it. Appreciate that. So, uh today I obviously he just briefed you on what happened real quick. >> a little bit. I don't know the whole story, but So, we coming in today for two different things. To exercise our right to record in public, and the second thing is we need to follow for you. Both of those are rights that are guaranteed. >> It is, though. It is. It's a private business, so It's not private, sergeant. This is This is a public This is Cook County Health, sir. So, it's So, the county is not private. Okay, I understand that, but you can't just stop that. >> Yeah, I know. I've been here a year ago and Arlington came out and educated everyone here, you know, leave this guy be, has a right to do it. I understand how they feel in terms of not wanting me to do it, but we're talking about rights that we have that are guaranteed. Do you get what I'm saying? So, uh that's that's the first thing. They don't provide for your forms here. Okay. This form, which I'm told you was already provided, states where if you can go Yeah. Yeah, they they A lot of entities don't provide the form. I don't need that. >> You sure? Yeah, I don't. That them That's instructions on how to do it. So, in the state of Illinois, there's no standard form even needed. You can fill it out on a blank sheet. No, I understand that. >> Yeah, so yeah. Not all facilities actually do it there. There [clears throat] may be another facility where they take care of the FOIA request. >> So, so but how how it works, though, is I have a right to submit one here and then they have to forward it to the public information officer. I still can submit one here. This is state law. These Yeah, so that's I'm just saying both of those are rights that are guaranteed to us. Soon as this young man came in, right away he was obviously uh overly for lack of a better word, kind of aggressive with trying to enforce their policy. And he's law enforcement. So, that's the first thing that we need to deal with. If I'm going to be threatened at any time with arrest for exercising a right, that's all I would need. That should suffice in terms of us possibly litigating this. And that's not what we're here to do. You know, we just want to make sure our rights are not trampled on. Okay. And when TTA decided to step back inside, the biggest question emerged. Would the police protect constitutional rights or follow internal policy instead? >> That's an intimidation as an instrument to violate my rights. >> me. Well, obviously, if I go back in there recording and they don't want me to, you guys are trying to go and try to enforce trespass, right? Well, I didn't say that. I'm asking. I'm just asking for a confirmation. The situation's changed. Okay. Well, I'm definitely going to go inside, finish my business that I need to conduct. If I'm going to be threatened with arrest, we just go from there. Well, nobody's threatened you. I'm just saying I know how this go. I know how it usually go. We hope, wish, and pray not. Like I said, North Riverside Police Department was beautiful the other day. They honored their oath. Everything was good to go. I don't understand what the problem today The only thing that we asked you we're asking you to go ahead and take care of your FOIA request as you choose, just not to do recording inside. Well, I understand you're asking. But I have If I have a right to do it, then that means I'm surrendering that. I don't know where it's written that you have a right to record in a facility. Really? So, you don't know about the You don't know about our First Amendment freedom of press? You don't know about that? >> No, I'm I'm just saying specifically that I just don't know. Yeah, freedom of press. Yes, sir. That's fine, but I'm choosing I'm choosing to provide a solution that would accommodate everyone. I understand, but your first thing is you got to uphold the oath you swore to. Now, please both sides. I'm going to. I'm I'm just I'm just going to do it inside where I have a right to do it. See, the Supreme Court has ruled on these things already, sir. I haven't I haven't argued that much. Yeah, ACLU versus Alvarez. Just in case you want to look it up. We have a right to record public officials in the course of their duties. This is This has been ruled on. And you guys are trying to step on it today. No, no, no. We just keep We keep stepping around the HIPAA thing. That's the That's the HIPAA only applies to personnel, not regular citizens. >> And And we don't want to risk them or their positions cuz they're regular citizens, too. So, you know what the law You know what the judge in in the Supreme Court has said? You have to create your own privacy, sir. And they have. Right. So, I mean, if that means take people to the back or Let's Let's go ahead and let's step inside of the vestibule, which is inside. We can complete that FOIA in the vestibule. Citizens can sue police officers under SS 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who break the law may be required to pay damages and face disciplinary action or termination. The police may face internal complaints and disciplinary investigations, civil rights complaints, and a Section 1983 lawsuit for violating the First Amendment. Up next, he had barely lifted his camera to take a few photos before being stopped with an unbelievable claim. This is national security. Can't be taking pictures of the rails? It's national security stuff. >> Really? What law is that? Uh So, you're going to tell me I can't do something without >> without knowing a law? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't be taking pictures of some stuff. >> Says who? Critical infrastructure. Says who? Says the government. The Constitution says I could. You can't just go around taking pictures of anything you want. What's your name, sir? Officer Mackey. Can I see your tag, please? Uh I need to record it. Huh? I need to record it. >> I just showed you. Uh so So, the judge asked for your name, you got to go like this, I just showed you? Yeah, I just showed you and I told you what it was. Wow. Can I see your ID real quick? Uh why should I show you my ID? Come on man, let's not make this difficult. Why should I Why am I making it difficult? I'm We were told I'm minding my own business. >> Hold on. I'm minding my own business taking pictures. >> Hold on. We got a call saying you were taking pictures >> constitutionally protected. First Amendment protected. So taking pictures being out taking pictures in public is now First Amendment protected activity. >> activity. What's the First Amendment? Tell me, it's not? What does the First Amendment say? >> First Amendment? Freedom of speech. Okay. Freedom of press. Okay. Okay. I'm a journalist. I'm taking pictures of everything. >> ID? I don't have to show you anything. The First Amendment is my press, okay? >> have your journalist ID? Uh check this out, guys. The officers began demanding ID even though they couldn't cite a single law that had been broken. A vague request setting the stage for a tense confrontation. Let's not make this difficult. Well, you guys are making it difficult because I'm not breaking no law. If we can get your name, we can probably get you out of here. Well, I don't have to provide no name if I haven't broken any law. No, it's not. The law states that the police officer asks for your identification. Are you sure? That's what you told us last week? >> yeah, I'm positive. Are you sure? Doesn't it say you have to have arrest? Huh? Don't you have to have arrest? And what they were Okay, what what law am I breaking? I just told you. What law am I breaking? We were told you were taking pictures of critical critical infrastructure. Which is what? >> Listen. Which is what? Which is what? Listen to me. No, you listen to me. >> No, that's not how this goes. Okay. You have permission to take pictures of the rails from UTA. Okay. Let me get your name. >> Do you have permission to take permit to take pictures of the rails from UTA? Hey, you guys want to call to the police department? We are the police. Let them know. Let me get your name. I'm not giving you my name. Okay, listen. State law says if you don't provide your name >> name All right. Can I Can I You mind if I reach over here for a paper? All right. Let me show you the paper. So they're saying that I have to provide ID whether I'm breaking the law or not. Whether I'm breaking the law or not. Just because they want to come and and ask for my name, I have to provide it. I don't think so. Then the threat came. Give us your ID or go to jail. A sudden escalation that showed they were trying to coerce him, not enforce the law. So what's your name? Why should I give you mine if you're not going to give us yours? Aren't you a public servant? Aren't you a citizen? Yeah. Yeah. Anytime you're stopped by a police officer, you're required to give us your name and Are you not? Uh especially if you're taking pictures and video of the Did you guys hear that? Did you guys hear that? Anytime I anybody walking down the street taking pictures, they get stopped by police, they have to identify themselves. You do? Have to. You do? And this officer don't want to give his officer's name. I'm pretty sure it says on the policy that when you're asked to give out your name I don't have to give you my name. You don't have to? It doesn't say in your policy? No. Your policy doesn't say you got to identify when You're taking this the wrong way here. Like we said, all we want to do is get your name and then you're free to take off and go. What is my name going to do? Let's just know who was out here taking pictures of our infrastructure. Where's your Where's your office located at? Right there. So It says big UTA right on the side. So the police department is in there, too? No, the police department's in >> what I'm asking you. Where's the police department? Where's your police department? It's in Murray. What's the address? Why? Cuz I'm going to go over there. >> Okay, look it up online and find it. So you're not even going to tell me your address? Why? Uh All right, so the guy that called in said you were filming all over the bus hub and FHQ. I was I was filming right here across the rail. Is there any reason why you're doing that? Who was that officer who parked over there earlier? I don't know. Even when asked to explain the alleged offense, the officers turned to the scariest claim of all, terrorism. A huge accusation with absolutely no evidence. All right. Utah State Code 76-8-3-1.5. Failure to disclose identity. A person is guilty of failure to disclose identity if during the period of time that the person is lawfully stopped uh subject to a stop as described in 77-715, which is right here. 77-715. There. A peace officer may stop any person in [clears throat] a public place when he has reason reasonable suspicion to believe he has committed or is in the act of committing or attempting to commit a public offense and may demand his name, address, and explanation of his actions. You're not explaining your actions. You're not explaining what what what law am I breaking? I'm This is an investigation. It Okay? No, I'm not going to give you my ID. That doesn't prove anything. Doesn't prove anything. If I have not committed a crime I'm not >> say you have to committed a crime. It's in the process of an investigation. >> reasonable If you have reasonable doubt that I'm committing a crime or I'm going to commit a crime, then I could give you my ID. But I haven't. >> Listen to me, okay? I'm not going to listen to you. Okay. I'm not going to listen to you. Okay, well I'm going to talk anyway, okay? All right, talk. If you're taking pictures and stuff of critical infrastructure, I have reason to believe that you may >> right? From public. Make sure you say that. Make sure you say from public. You said you weren't going to talk to me anymore. >> you Well, I just want to make sure you say from public. I have the reason to believe that you may be in the process of committing a crime or thinking of committing a crime and that's why I stopped you, okay? What crime are you thinking I'm committing? Acts of terrorism, maybe? Oh my god. Okay. So I just explained that to you. Paranoia is not the law. I'm not Paranoia is not law. Okay? That's how you guys are. With all the acts of terrorism that happened around the country, okay? What do you think those individuals did? Went around taking pictures. >> You guys sure about that? >> Positive. Am I free to go or am I being detained? You're being detained. For what crime? I didn't say it is a crime. I'm saying I'm investigating. Okay. All right, Chris. And when the man asked, "If I haven't committed a crime, am I free to go?" they suddenly had no answer. A confrontation that seemed ready to explode ended instead in a puzzling silence. Next, two masked men step out of a mysterious car, but what caused police to act just minutes later? Ma'am, if you would stand right there by the front of my vehicle, please. Go open it. I'll hold it. You open it. Ma'am, but I can't have you standing right here, ma'am. It's a public sidewalk. Lock my ass up. You can walk over there. The car never left, but the police started searching it without a warrant. Was this really an inventory or a cover-up search? Ma'am, is there anything in the vehicle that's going to hurt myself or any other officers that I need to know about? Okay. Is it Is it called a inventory cuz your vehicle's getting towed? I've seen there will be a form of that where you will actually have a list of what you found in the vehicle. Yes, ma'am. Ma'am, is there anything in the vehicle that's going to hurt myself or any other officers that I need to know about? Okay. Is it called a inventory cuz your vehicle's getting towed? I've seen there will be a form of that where you will actually have a list of what you found in the vehicle. Yes, ma'am. Okay. What's that? The tape the trash can. You see anything? You see anything worth anything? Got the pepper spray that way. I'll give her a chance to come get her property if she wants. Ma'am, can you step to the front of my vehicle, please? Do you want me to push the button or you want to give it to In 1 second, I'll let you know if there's anything that you want to get out of there, but just do me a favor. Stand right there by the front of my vehicle, please. You got to contain the air and hold it. Okay. You'll probably have to do it manually. Okay, open it. I'll hold it. You open it. Just take it out if you want to. Here's the blanket. All right, close it. When people asked about personal belongings taken from the car, what was the police response? An answer that left everyone stunned. Ma'am, is there anything in the vehicle you'd like to get out? I need to get my purse which is in my car in it. You can get whatever you want to out of it, ma'am. All right, I have your pepper spray. I'm going to give that back to you in a second if you want it or I can put it back in the vehicle. Whichever you would wish. I'm sorry, ma'am. I'm sorry, what was your question, ma'am? I have a cigarette pack in there that has a little container for my meds. The only one I saw was on the top of the center console which I set in the driver's seat, ma'am. Oh, I took it out. That's right. This is today. I just need the vehicle Excuse me, the key to the vehicle. I don't need any other personal key. Thank you, ma'am. Do you want this other little key? Nope, I got an extra one. Okay. Anything else out of the vehicle you want to get, ma'am? Uh nothing. Oh, lights my lights on. Well, it's Oh, it's it's open cuz it's open. Well, he'll open it up and I'll I'll I'll go back through it, make sure that there's any other inventory or whatever you've taken. And then he'll operate the vehicle to get it up so it doesn't tear up your transmission, ma'am. All right. What's my ticket for? Ticket for operating a motor vehicle without insurance. You have a court date or not? >> driving. Just I'm sorry? All right. Do you have any questions, ma'am? No. Okay. Have a nice day. Be careful, ma'am. The woman just wanted to stay close to her car, but the officer's next words pushed things beyond the legal limit. You are Have a good day, ma'am. I'm probably going to be paying for it. Okay. I need you to leave the area, ma'am. Ma'am, if you want, you can go over to that parking lot or you can go back over there, but I can't have you standing right here, ma'am. This is a public sidewalk. Lock my ass up. You can walk over there, ma'am, or you can walk over there. >> anywhere. I'm standing on a [ __ ] public sidewalk. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. Go for it. In for a penny, in for a pound. You might as well go for it. Okay. Have a nice day. I will. Thank you, ma'am. Do you have somebody coming to get you? Yes, I do. Goodbye. Wonderful. All right. I'll stay right here. I want to wait till the vehicle gets towed, ma'am. What's that? It's a open container right there. Yeah, me too. >> [snorts] >> It's interesting. Do what? Whoever can pick her up, you know, got to be 30 50. Yep. Car towed, stuff seized, no warrant, no authority, so who's breaking the law in this situation? Step back for a second, ma'am. Step back for a second, please. Step back for a second, please. All right. Now you can get whatever you want. That's okay. Not a problem, ma'am. Now you can get whatever you want to. Is there anything else you'd like to get out of the vehicle, ma'am? Okay. Ma'am, do you want this cell phone that's over here? Ma'am, do you want this cell phone that's over here? Cell phone? There's a cell phone in the front driver seat. Would you like that, ma'am? Okay. Oh, there was another one in the car over there. I I don't There's a There's a cell phone sitting in the front driver seat, ma'am. >> I've got my cell phone. Okay. It's crazy. I'm sorry? First driver thing, man. I guess so. What's up, boss? This vehicle, there's a tow fee. Do me a favor, load it up, and then we're going to go down to that parking lot. I'm going to finish doing the inventory on it. I don't trust her. Okay? Society is only truly safe when citizens understand their rights, and when every officer realizes that authority is not a key [music] to issue commands, but a reminder of the responsibility to act fairly, calmly, and within the law. Hey, everyone. What do you think about this [music] situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]