Apparently, you walked into our our records area filming everything. Can I Can I ask what you're filming? What you filming for? >> It's a public lobby, we're correct? Trespass from a public place for conducting a constitutionally protected act. How so? She never said we caused a disturbance. She said us filming made them uncomfortable. >> said it's a disturbance. So, us filming is a disturbance? You're causing a disturbance right now. By filming? Yes. Police believed they could order the cameraman to leave, but they didn't expect that action could lead to serious legal consequences. So, a public lobby is common for people to walk in. Just because I have a camera doesn't change anything. Now, I'm going to stop talking until you get a supervisor here since you couldn't give me your name and badge number and neither of you. I can. I just didn't feel like it. Okay, my badge number is 560. >> 543. 560. When power meets the camera, the truth is hard to hide and this time the consequences could come very quickly. Right at the Chandler Police Department headquarters, a man begins filming the memorial area and public spaces, but just a few minutes later an unexpected encounter with police begins and the situation quickly becomes tense. Here's the fire department memorial. And then here's the police department memorial here. I'll have to look up what that Latin phrase means. Got a nice little courtyard that you can walk through here. It's nice to get some shade from the sun sometimes here in Arizona. Now, I'm not quite sure what's going on here, but it looks like this kid is falling and spraining his ankle and called the cops. I don't know about [laughter] you, but when I was a kid sprained my ankle, I didn't call the cops. >> [laughter] >> That's funny. Spirit of community policing philosophy, little note here. Got people donated money, got their names in the bricks. Looks like the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Police Department walk of donations. And then the little memorial screen [clears throat] for the fallen officers that have fallen. Yeah, this is drop-off medication. Okay, we take anything but liquids and needles. And it's in that little green bin right there in the Yep. I'm just going to probably hold it in the background there for a gentleman here. Okay. Looking at some meds. Sir, can I help you? No, I'm good. Thank you. After walking around the memorial area in the police department's public lobby, the cameraman continues filming around the back of the building. Everything seems normal at first, but just a few minutes later the appearance of a police officer begins to change the situation. The front of the building where I just was, but I'm walking behind the back now and I'm going to address [clears throat] him when he gets here if I need to address him, which we'll see. Authorized vehicles only. No tailgating. One vehicle at a time. Okay. So, this station is across the street from these I guess defunct rail cars. They're just sort of sitting. And then the apartments here. The officer that I was just talking about is running here. Hey. Hey. How you doing, sir? Good, how are you? I guess we got a call on you. Okay. How you doing, sir? My name's Brian Hawkins. I'm with the police department. >> Okay. Apparently, you walked into our our records area filming everything. Can I Can I ask what you're filming? What you filming for? >> It's a public lobby, we're correct? Anyone can walk in there? Yeah. >> Okay, I walked in and took pictures. Perfectly legal. Name and badge number, please. You under Can I have your name and badge number, please? >> Can I have your name? No, you can't. >> a birth? No, you can't. Can I have your name and badge number, please? You see my name right there. >> You say that to the judge? You go to court, you say that to the judge, you say my name is here? Are you here to pick a fight, sir? I'm not here to pick a fight. Just your name and badge number, that's all I need. You understand it's highly suspicious that somebody walked in into a police Yeah, absolutely. It's not every day that somebody walks into our lobby with and starts filming. So, we just asked for your name. >> it's also not every day that somebody walks in and tosses medicine. Did you stop that guy that did that? That's a actually it's a medicine drop-off station. So, it actually is common. >> So, a public lobby is common for people to walk in. Just because I have a camera doesn't change anything. Now, I'm going to stop talking until you get a supervisor here since you couldn't give me your name and badge number and neither of you. >> I can. I just didn't feel like it. Okay, my badge number is 560. >> number is 543. 560 and I have I walked up and introduced myself as Brian Hawkins. >> So, And then you got hostile. So, now I'm just going to remain quiet till you get a supervisor. Nobody's hostile. The conversation between the cameraman and the officers quickly becomes tense as questions about their names and badge numbers continue to be avoided. When the situation seems to reach a dead end, the cameraman decides to request a supervisor [snorts] and that's >> No. Is it in your policy for your officers to identify when a public citizen asks for their name and badge number? Yes. Can I have your name and badge number, please? No. No? Isn't that your policy? Good day. Isn't that your policy to give your name and badge number? >> I don't need to. You don't need to? You don't need to follow your policy? Policy for what? >> Is it in your policy for your officers to identify when a public citizen asks for their name and badge number? See, is it your policy or not? Secondly, do you have any training on public photography at Chandler PD? On public photography? Yes. I don't know if it's formalized training, but they instructed us on We actually got some formalized training as part of a different program. >> Okay. >> spoke about it. So, your officers are aware that public photography is not suspicious behavior. No, but it's not that it's not suspicious behavior, but it it's uh something that we can't stop people from Okay. The important bit here is all three of them in this front part also were hesitant in giving me their information. The one said, "It's right here." Well, you don't say that to a judge if you go to court. You don't say it's right here. Tell the judge your name and your badge number. Okay. I'm a judge. That's just the way it works. As far as the police are concerned, citizens are the judge. Same with this guy out here. He's taking pictures of me, which I don't care. He's in public, but he's not giving me the info. When the conversation with the supervisor begins, the cameraman quickly gets straight to the point whether the officers were actually following their own department policies. But the more he speaks, the more contradictions he points out in how the officers handled the situation earlier. People see this and it reflects badly on you as the as a lieutenant and you as a sergeant when your officers treat public citizens the way they did. I'm just standing outside taking pictures, and he comes up to me with attitude. I don't appreciate it, and that's all I wanted to say, and I wanted to make it known right up front. Did you want to file a complaint? I don't have his name. I can't file a complaint with no name. Yeah, you can. We can try to find him out. Well, Did you want to file a complaint? No, but I'll be back one of these days, and maybe you guys will have gotten the memo by then. But when I come back, I expect better treatment. >> filming people coming in and out of the police department, they're probably going to come up and talk to you and ask you what you're doing. And if I say that I'm just If I'm just taking pictures in public, is this a problem? No, it's not illegal for us to come and talk to you, either. I never said it was. What I'm asking is why why the hostility when people are just taking pictures in public. There was this young man that walked in and put medicine in the bin. And I addressed that with the officer outside. Why didn't he get stopped? He walked into the public lobby and dumped some medicine in there. You don't know it was medicine, nobody checked it, he could have put anything in there. I have an open camera and an orange vest, I'm not hiding anything. Why am I suspicious and the guy putting whatever in that medicine bin isn't? So I can walk in with a bag that this young lady didn't inspect, put it in there, and walk out, and you have no idea what was in that bag, and that's perfectly fine. That's what that bin's for, it's for the medicine. People put medicine in there all day long. Why is that not suspicious? Why did no one check it? Why did no one question what he was putting in there? Because we don't have people that check that every day. But you have people that check people walking around taking pictures in public? Would you like to make a complaint today? No, I don't. Okay. >> If I come back here next time, Hey, sir. Okay. You don't walk away, that's fine. The audit comes to an end, but what just happened leaves a big question behind. Do the officers truly understand and respect the constitutional rights of citizens while performing their duties? Up next, an audit group walks into the Scottsboro public library simply to film, just like any other citizen. But only seconds later, a library employee suddenly stops them, and the confrontation begins to heat up. I'm sorry? What are you doing? I'm just coming in the library. >> You're not coming in here and filming people that don't want to be filmed. Is this a public place? >> It is a public place, and I'm not telling you that you cannot utilize a public facility, but you just made a uh patron very uncomfortable by filming them, and they did not want to >> don't trump rights. If I can It's it's a public place. >> into this with you. So are you refusing me access here? No, I'm not refusing you access, but what I'm trying to explain to you is you were We are not We do not have a policy where you're not going to be messing with patrons. >> Yeah, no one's messing with anyone. Did you see me speak to that gentleman? >> not Let me let me tell you a secret. That gentleman's with me, we wanted to gauge your reaction. >> with you and your phone and you're filming. Have a Have a good day. So we just conducted a social experiment. That guy's with me. >> It's not a social experiment. >> What we What we do Man, you're being disorderly, please calm down. I'm not being disorderly, I think I'm So I'm I'm I'm conducting a narrative. So what we do is, you know, our friend No Name wants to pretend that he doesn't give us consent to film, to see if they'll help violate my rights because we're conducting a constitutionally protected activity. So and you'll see the way they dis You'll see the way that they change. Now, we've already told the the library woman that No Name's actually with us, okay? So here comes a police officer right now, and he's going to try and explain to us what's going on. After being confronted by a library employee who claimed that the filming was making some people uncomfortable, the audit group tried to explain that they were simply recording inside a public building. Just minutes later, officers arrived, and from that moment on, the conversation quickly turned into a tense debate between both sides. At least he parked in an actual parking space. I told her they don't know yet. Um this gentleman came up to the desk and said that this gentleman right here was filming him, and he did not want to be filmed. We asked what was going on, they don't They said they don't know each other. These two gentlemen are together. Mhm. No, I'm going to say this gentleman right here was filming right here They didn't have to go have a meeting. I had a meeting one time with my mayor in our city. >> And Yeah, so she's not lying. So he's he's with us. Now we go We went into a public place to conduct filming, and what he'll do is he'll say, "Oh, can you very Can you ask him to stop filming me?" And at that point, she refused me access to the building, tells me it's illegal to film, and all that other stuff. We do this stuff to bring awareness that there's nothing wrong with this, and as to make it a point, I'm now going to go back inside and continue to film her. Her sole issue is that I was filming, and she actually tried to bar access to the building. >> was trying to have a conversation with him. But I don't have to answer your questions because I'm conducting a constitutionally protected activity. It's a violation of my civil rights to me to, you know, violate my Fifth Amendment right to have to tell you what I'm doing because I'm conducting a constitutionally protected activity. >> I'm in. Do you not want him here? He is making my staff very uncomfortable. I would really You can't solicit a trespass from her, either. She has to take a trespass on her own, it's illegal for you to solicit one. That's number one. And number two, because I'm filming, you can't solicit a trespass because I'm practicing my First Amendment right, She doesn't want you in there. This is Patrol v. City of St. Petersburg, Florida. I'm talking to him, I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you. He's reciting He's He's reciting case law. We actually just You know who we told we were coming here and said it's absolutely fine? Your major. Your major. Your major. They It has to be a reason other than we're It has to You want me to go get him? No, you stay here, we'll back up. So you have to You have to actually cite a reason that's not a constitutionally protected activity. Like the First Amendment, us conducting that, that's not a reason for you to solicit a trespass. When the officers begin questioning the reason for the filming, the exchange quickly becomes tense. Both sides start arguing directly about the law and the limits of police authority. Just minutes later, the situation unexpectedly escalates when one officer issues a warning that makes the atmosphere more tense than ever. Um Actually, I'll speak to the supervisor cuz you're an idiot. What No, no one's calling I said you're an idiot. Call me an idiot. Yes, that's my freedom of speech to do so. I feel that you're an idiot right now. Because you should have access to case law, you swore an oath to the Constitution. You need to go. So you're trespassing me from a public place? They don't want you here. Okay, but you First of all, you can't You can't So, sergeant, we can be trespassed from a public place for conducting a constitutionally protected activity? How so? She never said we caused a disturbance, she said us filming made them uncomfortable. That's what she said, it's a disturbance. So us filming is a disturbance? disturbance right now. By filming? Yes. Okay, so you've just said on video There No, no, not a rise. We didn't We didn't give you a problem in your police department, but you need to honor your oath. That's what you need to do. Filming is No, no, by Listen, I've met a lot of a lot of bad cops, and I get quite a few of them fired. You are probably the most ignorant. I mean, look at you, like you can tell me to leave a public place, but you can't even get on a treadmill. The last time you saw the Constitution was when you saw your toes off, sir. This is absolutely unacceptable, you should be ashamed of yourself. So I need to No, absolutely not. I'm not trespassing till she serves me with a trespass. Okay, so I'm I'm obstructing government operations? So you're giving me a lawful command to leave this property under penalty of arrest for filming? Okay, so I will wait till they serve me a trespass notice, and then I'm going to go back to the So how can they trespass me without providing me a trespass notice? You're going to find out. Okay, so they So how does it work? They They have to notify me by written statement. >> They've already notified you they don't want you here. Okay, so they notified So as of right now, under penalty of arrest, you're trespassing me from a public building because I'm filming, yes? Am I accurate? >> want you here. Because you're causing a disturbance, and they don't want you here. Okay, so now we're going to go back to the police station, see Dan and Jay Hunter. I can promise you one thing, you're going on investigation, you're going to lose your badge. Watch me live, you're about to lose your job, brother. Beautiful. I And people say, like, "Listen, stay there, get arrested." I get arrested all the time for this [ __ ] >> I'd rather take an unlawful command because that's going to cost him his job. You guys got it on film, he trespassed me for conducting a constitutionally protected activity. Let's go back. The audit group repeatedly asks for the legal basis behind the order for them to leave, while the officers seem to grow increasingly impatient with the situation. But instead of stopping there, they take the matter to another level, going directly to the police department's command staff to clarify everything that just happened. Okay. So right now, >> [clears throat] >> it's illegal to solicit a trespass. We go into the For a police officer to solicit a trespass. We went into the library, okay? And she told us we could not film the patrons. Let her know that it's a constitutionally protected activity. We weren't rude to you guys, we're just here to film. Right. And that person point said, "Oh, well, I'm going to call the police." So I step outside, thinking you guys take your 2 seconds to get here, wait for you, and then she comes to the door. I approach the door and say, I can't He meant she goes, "Well, no, you're filming." I said, "So you're barring me entry cuz I'm practicing a constitutionally protected activity." She says, "No." She lets me back in. I'm going to show you the video in a second. The whole encounter is filmed. We walk out, and this tyrant, I can promise you he's going to lose his job. You should check my track record for getting cops fired, it's wonderful. I even got a judge under my belt. Comes up to us, says, "What are you guys doing?" We say, "Practicing a constitutionally constitutionally protected activity." And he goes, "All right, well, she doesn't want you here, so we'll just get you trespassed." So, we say we cite the actual case law. You can't solicit a trespass. >> On public property? Well, she don't want you here. And I was like, well, she can't trespass me until I've been served a trespass notice. So, she can come out and let me know. He goes, "Well, how about this? You're fixing to go to jail right now. You want to go to jail?" And I said, "So, you're going to arrest me, clear as day, because I'm conducting a constitutionally protected activity inside of a public place?" And he said, "Yes." Yeah. Okay. Are you going to You need to file Are you going to file a complaint? >> to place him under arrest anyways, violating my civil rights. I'm just going to place him under citizen's arrest. Um so, that that's number one. Number two, is he accurate? He can take me to Now, it's no not up for debate. I'll show you the video. >> to be barred by the person that's running the property. Excellent. Okay, so she did not Now, she hasn't come back out give me any trespass notice. The conversation was him, and I'll show you the video. "You don't want him here?" And she says He says, "Why?" And she says, "Him filming is making people uncomfortable." And I said, "You can't even accept a trespass notice from a public place. Private residential's different. From a public place because her complaint is not that I'm being disorderly. Her complaint is not that I'm harassing people. Her complaint is that I'm uncomfortable because I'm filming. You can't solicit a trespass firstly, but accept a trespass because I'm peacefully conducting a First Amendment privilege. And that's where the whole jail talk comes into Every civilized society needs a balance between the freedom of its citizens and the responsibility of law enforcement. Hey, everyone. What do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. building that houses hundreds of thousands of copies of it. We normally go in and when they pull that stuff, we ask them to get us the Constitution. Mhm. That's how we address folks in public. Um this the videos themselves is what's supposed to be bring awareness, you know, I'm not I'm one of those guys that you really don't see citizens in here because my mom's 76 years old, okay? If she walks into a park and someone shoves a camera in her face, before I do this, she's going to be like, "What are you for?" She's going to get scared. Like, why is someone random They don't People don't know. They're not aware. And that's why we do this in the most civilly way possible to bring that awareness. And we travel all over the country to do it. Okay. And um you know, it's it's really sad to see something like that because folks are this And the another big reason we do it is because, you know, when my son turns 18, he gets pulled over, an officer says, "Hey, listen, you got to give me your ID, and then you just got to let me search your car for a minute." He's going to trust because it's a gentleman with a badge and in a position of police officer that he can trust that information. Right. Now, whether he's giving the information nefariously because he just wants to search the car or he's just not educated, neither reason is a valid concern. The citizens need to trust that these officers are giving them the correct information. Officers like you, they can trust you're giving us the right information. And I feel totally safe knowing that your job here has been nothing but close to 30 years of phenomenal service. It's officers like that that make me wonder, you're doing it on film. What are you doing off camera? I mean, we've we've been nothing but like civil. We don't yell. I mean, it's all on video. Right. No, people aren't going to like me if I go in and scream at some lady. No. You know, it's it's And what's the point of doing that? At that point, I'm not providing education. I'm just getting in an argument with a librarian. It doesn't It doesn't serve anyone's purpose. No one would pay me to go across the country to do this. Correct. So, if we could walk over there with you, so we could just finish the rest of this? >> over there and something else. >> I'll meet you over there. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. Hey, listen, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you. We're just trying to bring awareness. After hearing the full account of the incident, the police commander clarified that no valid trespass order had been issued [music] at the library at that time. Citizens may file a lawsuit against the police under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who violate [music] those rights may face financial liability and could be disciplined or even terminated. Before the command staff, they recount in detail how they were threatened with [music] arrest simply for filming inside a public building. But the question many people are wondering is this, when everything is examined closely, >> [music] >> did those earlier threats of arrest actually have any legal basis? >> [music]