You're video-taping cars coming out of the police station. Yeah. All right. Now, it says no trespassing. So, if you're recording cars and there's cars that we don't want you to see coming out of there, that would be a problem. Okay. I'm on public property. I'm not trespassing. Okay. You're not in any trouble. Police believed they had the right to demand identification at any time. But when the law was brought up right in front of the camera, the situation began to change. You could be kicked off of it. You could so you lose your privilege. So, that would be like you would say you have public rights to go into that area. Are you working for any specific company? No, I'm just independent. Do you have an ID on you or anything? Uh, no. Okay. What's your first last name? Oh, I'm not going to ID him. I'm going to film you. Police thought this was just a simple check. But once the law was brought up on camera, it could mean the officer may now face an internal investigation or even a civil lawsuit. An independent journalist was simply standing on a public sidewalk filming video. But just seconds later, police approached and began asking suspicious questions. What made holding a phone to record suddenly turn into a tense confrontation? Hi, ma'am. Hey. May I ask you what you're doing? I'm getting footage of police cars. Uh, why? I'm working on a story. I'm a journalist. For who? I'm independent. Huh? I'm independent. Can I get your name and badge numbers? No. I would like you to come over here and talk to me. Can you come over here and talk to her real quick? We're talking. Your name and badge numbers? Huh? Your name and badge number? My name and badge number? >> Yeah. I'm 21, 54. Thank you. You? Sergeant Hines, S86. Can I have your ID? And for what? Well, you're video-taping cars coming out of the police station. Yeah. All right. Now, it says no trespassing. So, if you're recording cars and there's cars that we don't want you to see coming out of there, that would be a problem. Well, I mean, it's public property. You could be kicked off of it. You could so you lose your privilege. So, that would be like you would say you have public rights to go into that area. I haven't gone in the back area. I'm on public sidewalk. Okay. All right, your ID? For what? Do you want me to turn? No, no, no. Well, I need to know if I did capture any of the cars that you shouldn't be capturing coming out of there. How would my ID help you with that? Well, I'm going to document it that you were here and you captured that. So, but I'll let him explain it more. >> Oh, sure. Oh, him? Yes. Okay. Hello. Hi. How are you? Good. I'm good, thank you. Can I get your name and badge number? Yeah. My name is S21. Thank you. She's standing here and she's recording all the cars coming in and out of here. From the very first moments, it seemed like nothing more than a normal conversation between an independent journalist and several police officers. But once questions about his identity began to appear, the atmosphere quickly grew more tense. You're not in the district? Yeah. Okay. Those aren't all police cars. Okay. That You can see that from anywhere on public property. It's not a hidden thing. Um Yeah, I think uh So, you have an You're independent blog or something or what? Uh, I have a YouTube channel. I have a YouTube channel. What other stories have you done? What other YouTube >> A lot. A lot of stories. >> How would I find your YouTube? Would you like my YouTube channel name? Sure. Do you want to write it down? I mean, you can tell me. I doubt you'd remember it. Recording it. Oh, okay. 51-50 space >> 51-50, a space, and then 5-0. >> Okay. So, what stories have you done? I don't know if you'd be familiar with them. Funny videos or what? No. Um More of a police accountability channel. I'm a First Amendment auditor. You're what? I'm a First Amendment auditor. So, I'm auditing your your department right now. Well you know, to see if you know the First Amendment and respect the First Amendment rights of citizens. Well I don't mind I don't mind you filming police cars. You can film those. They all look the same. It's just that some people probably think a little When the cameraman revealed the real reason he was there, the atmosphere immediately changed. The conversation was no longer as simple as it had been at the beginning. Then an unexpected argument was brought up, one related to officer safety. But that claim quickly pushed the conversation into a far more tense direction. You're endangering mine. I mean, the The me being anywhere around a police officer makes me a lot more in danger of getting hurt. I mean, people people get hurt by police officers all the time that didn't do anything wrong, in fact, for holding cell phones. By who? Law enforcement. We we hurt people? Do you not? No. You Oh, this has become a comedy video. Cool. exchange, the atmosphere seemed to calm down. But the story was far from over. Just a few minutes later, the situation suddenly changed when the cameraman stepped inside the police station. And it was here that everything began to escalate in a way no one expected. Hey, am I detained? Am I being detained? Ma'am, you can make a police report or anything. I know. Okay. Then you can't be in the building. You're not here for a legitimate police business. You you have to leave the building. Oh, it's just exercising my First Amendment right to getting pictures and video of public property in public property on public property of public property. So, that's what I was doing. I'm about to walk out. >> the lobby. Right. It's a public property. A public property. Yeah. This is legitimate. All right. Thank you. Goodbye. Sorry. I was getting a picture of that. I'm getting a picture of that thing. I can't hear you. >> [music] >> As the conversation reached its final moments, the biggest question remained unanswered. Is the right to record on public property truly respected as the law requires? Citizens may file lawsuits against police under Section 1983 when their rights are violated. Officers who break the law can face financial liability, disciplinary action, or even termination. Up next, an independent journalist was filming outside a large facility when a security guard suddenly asked him to stop. Just minutes later, police arrived and a tense exchange began. >> Oh, we got police on scene. Yes. Well, I waited this long enough. After the security guard showed dissatisfaction with the filming, the situation began to draw more attention. But instead of quickly clearing things up, the conversation started moving in a different direction with questions about the cameraman's identity and his real purpose. Perfect. Hey sir, how are you? What's going on, man? I didn't think you guys were coming out. Took a while. Yeah. It's all good. They they called. The security called. Yeah, I told him he just told me not to film. I told him I'm not on your property, so Do you mind if I ask what you're filming for? Oh, I'm just doing a little news story. I'm a journalist. Okay. All right. >> That's all. Do you work for any specific company? No, I'm just independent. Do you have an ID on you or anything? Uh no. Okay. What's your first last name? Oh, I'm not going to ID. I'm I'm just out here filming, dude. I'm sorry. I'm not going to ID. I'm just out here filming. Okay. Public property. I'm not trespassing. You're not in any trouble. >> I know. I know. That's why I'm not going to ID. Cuz I'm not in any trouble. Exactly. That's You don't have to be in trouble to ID, though. Well, that's what title 11 1902 says in Delaware. You know, you have some kind of crime that you suspect me of. You just said I'm not in any trouble. You just crossed that whole getting my ID line. Sorry, bud. I'm sorry. I don't want to do the whole >> I don't want to talk to you at all. Are you detaining me here? Technically, you're not free to go. Okay. So, I am detained. Okay. All right. So, like I said, the the security office called. They were just concerned cuz you were videoing. That's all. Okay. I thought you were law enforcement. Feelings enforcement out here. You know, their feelings don't trump what I can do. I can't hear you. I'm sorry. That their feelings don't trump what I can do. You're not feelings enforcement. You're law enforcement. Okay. The law says I can video from public property. >> understand that. I'm not I'm not disputing that. I'm not disputing that, okay? But I I am allowed to verify who you are just to make sure you don't have any warrants or anything like that, okay? >> I'm not going to do that, so Okay. Well, If we need to escalate, that's fine. If you want to get a supervisor, I'm I'll wait. I have no problem. >> is actually on his way. I'll let you talk to him a little bit more, so Perfect. Um is there any reason why you don't want to provide any information? >> Uh just I want to be anonymous. That's the whole point. Okay. All right. That's fine. That's all it is. I'm just trying to do a news story. I'm an investigative news journalist. I'll let everybody know who I am, what I'm doing. Everybody going to know. What's the point of coming out here, you know? You guys come out to the stores. They got a lot They just got approved for like a COVID, you know, vaccine. So, I'm working on a little news story about it. I don't see why y'all need to harp me for who I am and what I'm doing. >> I'm not No one's harping you. It's part of our job to ID people when we get called I know, but I'm just engaged in free press out here. When the request for identification was refused, the conversation quickly turned into a tense debate about police authority and citizens' rights in public spaces. And just minutes later, another figure stepped into the exchange. And that arrival had the potential to completely change the direction of the situation. Never not going to speak anymore. Just Okay. What's up, buddy? What's up, man? We just got called here from the guard shack. I know. I told him to leave. He's hollering at me not to film, so I told him I'm not on your property. You know, there's nothing you can do about it. Call the police. They'll tell you the same thing, so I was hoping you'd come out here and educate him and tell me to have a nice day. Your officer here is harping me for my ID. Oh. >> not real happy about it, so I don't know what you want to do about it. You said you're the supervisor. Yep. So, look, we're obviously not trying to give you a hard time about the whole situation. >> I'm just trying to keep doing my job out here. I'm out here doing my job. I understand. I don't want to be held up any longer, so I understand, but but well, you technically are right now. Um I just I just need your ID. Okay. I don't have it on me. I'm I'm not going to give you anything. I'm not Okay. So, just I'm just going to try to explain something. It's fine. I just told you You giving us your We're not going to give it out to anybody, okay? This whole incident is is documented. >> Would you just listen to me for a I don't want to listen to you. I want to be free on my way to do what I want to do. You can still be if you let us do our job, though. >> I'm just doing free press. That's all I'm doing. You can still be if you let us do our job, though. This is preventing you from doing what you want to do, though. So, we could be out of your hair if you gave I'm not stopping you. I want to turn around and go back to where I was going. Okay. That's fair. So do we. I'm not stopping you guys. I'm not detaining you. So, much like much like you want us to educate the other individual, we are going to. That's great. Now's the time for us to educate you, okay? Ooh, okay. Let's hear it, man. Let's hear So, when it comes Yeah, this is a good one. This is a good So, when it comes to stopping somebody, right? Title 11 1902. I know the code. Okay. So, that's how I know the code. We've been out So, are you aware of the basic things that you have to provide a police officer when they come >> said when you have you either have to think I'm committing, I'm about to commit, or I have committed a crime. You already So, you don't have that. So, I have no obligation to give you anything. That's the problem here is you have no suspicion of me breaking any laws. You already stated that on camera. Yeah. So, there's no need to go push any further with this. You guys are escalating this and you're trying to violate my rights of my fourth amendment to get my ID and trying to tell me you have to get my ID. You don't have to get my ID unless I'm breaking the law. That's how it works. Okay. So, if we're going to keep doing this, that's fine. I'll just keep I'm not going to ID. So, where do you want to go from here? Well, you know, obviously we would really enjoy As the debate over the right to demand identification continued, the atmosphere between the two sides grew increasingly tense. The situation seemed to reach a stalemate with neither side willing to back down. Then a new explanation was introduced and things began to shift in a way no one expected. The S. Milner, what's your badge number? 1088. Woo! Man, this is great stuff. You can just stop anybody and ID them. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. You can just stop and ID Yeah, anybody you want. Cuz you got cuz you got a call. That sounds pretty terrible. But You guys think that way. I'll talk to Are you his supervisor? Are you his direct supervisor? Uh well, based on the ranking person. >> What's your What's your name, sir? Dufort. Dufort. Yes, sir. Look. Good one. What? I don't know why we're still here. I told you exactly what I'm doing. I'm a journalist. I'm gathering content. I'm on public property. I have never entered the property once. I'm not trespassing. I'm not loitering. I'm breaking no laws. Why are we still here? You're law enforcement. That's true. Let's enforce the law here. So, look, I'm just talking to you, man. I don't want to talk anymore. I already told you that. I want to go back to doing my job. Like you guys should be going back to yours, too. You're here not doing anything. You're harassing a law-abiding citizen right now. I'm not breaking any laws. We already established that. >> never stepped foot on their property or anything like that. >> I got the whole I've still been filming the whole time. >> Two times now. Do you know why he called specifically? He came out to me and told me I can't film and then he went back in there. I guess he called somebody and then he came back out again and said I can't film. I said, "Dude, I don't want to argue with you. I'm not going on your property. I haven't been on it. I'm not on it. This is public. This is the police's job. Call them cuz you can't enforce anything on public." I said, "If you don't like it, then call them." And I didn't know if he did or not. It's been a while since I said that. I was getting ready to leave. That's why I was going back here once more to get some shots and I was about out of here and I was like, "Holy they showed up finally." Yep. I was just I didn't want you chasing me around. I was waiting for you, you know? I didn't want to just run away. I got I'm not hiding anything. That's what I'm trying to say. So, you wanted us to come out here? Is that what you're saying? Not really, but when he said that, I I wanted to wait for you guys. I'm not going to like be around town having you guys chasing after me. >> at the police station took the phone call and we responded out here, so Well, I mean, when you get out here, you see that, hey, some guy's just taking pictures in public. He's good to go. He's not doing anything wrong. He's turning around. You don't even have to come talk. I get if you want to, that's great. I don't mind you coming and talking. I tell you what I'm doing, but as soon as we try to escalate to oh, we're going to get your ID, it becomes an issue. I asked for your ID. Uh okay. I'm not going to That's fine, dude. You told me you had the right After several minutes of intense debate, the conversation finally began to slow down. The legal arguments had been laid out and both sides seemed to be weighing their next move. But just when things appeared to be settling, a brief exchange between the officers suddenly pushed the situation in a different direction. Okay. You're correct. Okay? We don't need to push the envelope any further. Okay? Yeah, I'm good. So, you're not detained. We're just having consensual conversation. All right. That's That's fine, man. All right. But obviously, we're not out here to give you a hard time. We real genuinely not. I get it. Yeah. Okay. The only reason we were out here is because we're called out here, okay? They don't know what's going on. There's a lot of weird stuff going on in the world. They don't know. He's sitting in a He's sitting in a shack. I don't understand. Get it. He's sitting in a shack and he sees some dude with cool equipment walking around and he's probably like, "What in the heck is going on?" >> get it. Yeah, but they're a big company. They got a lot They got a lot going on. There's a lot of people who want to know about it. I'm just out here getting pictures of signs so I can put it in like a story or something like that. Getting video and like seeing if they have any cars with the labels on them. Something like that. So, I'm just out here trying to get some shots. More power to That's all, man. Okay. Look, just be careful, okay? Yeah, I'm good. I don't mind when they come. I'd rather you guys come out here and educate them. That way if it goes away, they can go back to doing their job. I can go back to doing my job. Like it's cool, you know? So, when they come out here saying something, that's why I tell them, "Call the police. It's fine. I don't mind dealing with you guys." I I hope Most people come out, they tell them what's going on. Hey, he's allowed to do it. Don't worry about it. End of the day. Have a nice day. That's what I look for. I don't You don't even know me from my name. unless anything wrong. Okay. Well, look, at the end of the day, I agree with you. Okay. I I do. And that's why I'm not pushing this thing. >> that's why. You know I I'm not disagreeing with you. So, um obviously, there's nothing that we can articulate that's That's going on. I don't think so. Okay. I hope not. So, look, friends, since again, I don't know your name, okay? >> I wish you nothing but the >> Best. Have a good night, sir. Okay. Now, obviously, in the future, if somebody were to call and there was something that we could articulate, we would definitely ask for your ID, okay? >> you. That's why I don't do that. So, I know what I'm doing. I'm out here. I stay on public. I got it, man. Be careful. Yeah, I'm good. Appreciate it. You guys have a nice night. You too. Be careful, all right? >> Mhm. After several minutes of tense debate, the situation finally began to calm down. The officers seemed to realize that things were not as simple as they had initially thought. But before leaving, a few final words were exchanged, and they made the entire [music] situation far more thought-provoking. In a society governed by the rule of law, the rights of citizens and the responsibilities [music] of law enforcement must always be balanced through understanding, respect, and transparency. Hey everyone, what do you think about this situation? If you enjoyed the video, don't forget to like, subscribe, and support us with a donation. Thank you so much. >> [music]