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good morning this is daniel here with cop watch tv i just want to welcome everyone to our live event today so this week we're going to talk about a couple different major issues that are happening in the policing world in the law enforcement world so but first of all i'd like to thank everyone who participates who has come to our live events in the past and today so just make sure that you like subscribe and leave comments uh what we're gonna do is kind of like a road map is i'm gonna talk about some of the issues that are happening and once i go through a case of something that just occurred i'm gonna give some of my thoughts about it and while i'm doing that if you have any questions or comments make sure you put them in the chat and then our producer is going to let me know which comments we have and i'm going to try to answer some of them here in real time so that this is an interactive experience between copwatch tv and our viewers so again my name is daniel if you want to follow me you can on tick tock and youtube at police law news so the first case that we're going to talk about is the patrick loyola case so just to refresh everybody's memory patrick loyola was killed by a police officer christopher scherr in rapid city michigan on april 4th of 2022. the long story short is this was a traffic stop so officers sure conducted a traffic stop and patrick loyola was the driver the reason for the traffic stop was that the license plate didn't match the kind of car it was once the traffic stop occurred patrick loyola exited the vehicle and the police officer had some contact with him outside the vehicle and he let him know that he had conducted a traffic stop patrick loyola ended up running from the officer and there was a foot chase the foot chase was short it just went from the street into a front yard once in the front yard the police officer tried an empty hand takedown which was not successful to get patrick into custody then the officer tried to use his taser and the taser was not successful right after that there was a struggle over the taser where patrick loyola actually grabbed the taser from officer shure there was they struggled over the taser for approximately 90 seconds both individuals the officer and patrick ended up on the ground and once on the ground after about 90 seconds there was an officer-involved shooting and yesterday the district attorney in grand rapids michigan determined that they were going to file second-degree murder charges against the police officer christopher scherr in this case the d.a did a press conference and we're going to play a little bit of that press conference and it was from yesterday so producer nick can you go ahead and play that i'm not thinking that kent county officers or even any police officers in general thought they had a license to go out and do something like this uh that's a i think this is not a message this is just based on the facts and making decision in this case okay so we heard a little bit about from the from the d.a right there where we heard a little bit from the d.a they're right there where he essentially said that you know he doesn't think that police officers um think that they have a license to do that so we'll get into a little bit of more of the facts of what happened in some thoughts and common reasonable questions that people have but let's play since he the officer was charged with second-degree murder let's listen to the d.a tell the at the press conference exactly what that means producer first there was a death a death done by the defendant and then when the killing occurred the defendant had one of these three states of mind an intent to kill an intent to do great bodily harm or the intent to do an act that the natural tendency of that act would be to cause death or great bodily harm and finally that the death was not justified or excused for example by self-defense taking a look at everything that i reviewed in this case i believe there's a sufficient basis to proceed on a single count of second degree murder and that charge has been filed with the courts as of today okay so with that the d.a there really isn't much dispute that the police officer caused the death of patrick loyola so those first several elements are met however we're going to get to a point where they say thanks we're going to get to a point where the the district attorney says that without it being justified so without self-defense so i want to thank everyone again for coming into this live and we're going to get to the questions here in a second and the first question that you know i'm going to pose to see if anybody has an answer to and is so the d.a said that it's would be second-degree murder if there was no justified reason so if it wasn't self-defense so was it self-defense on behalf of the officer that's the question that has to be answered so let's go into the comments a little bit and see if anybody has any thoughts or questions about this case from what we've reviewed so far okay so all right dr lourdes oh goodness uh this situation but this like okay um let's see so so seagull said that um someone said that essentially that this person should have just complied and yeah that's that's you know people who are on the side of the police on these things that's typically what they say is that you know if an individual just complies this kind of thing isn't going to happen and at least in this case we can cite to at least a little bit of evidence meaning that patrick loyola he has a criminal history he was arrested for stealing cars at least three times and for domestic violence and no point was he ever involved in a use of force with a police officer and he definitely wasn't involved in an officer-involved shooting so in the other several arrests that happened to patrick loyola he was put into custody and arrested by police officers without incident because he complied so that would be the evidence that people who have that point of view should point for it should would point to also i mean it should it's reasonable to say also that just because someone runs from the police doesn't mean that it should be an automatic death sentence running from police is typically a misdemeanor offense and you know police officers shouldn't kill people because of a misdemeanor offense so essentially the question that has to be asked is and in any use of force with a police officer when there's deadly force is at the time of the incident was the police officer or anybody else in immediate danger of death or great bodily injury so if the answer to that is yes then it's likely going to be a legally justified shooting if the answer to that is no then it's not so some of the factors that we have to look at are well why did the police officer shoot well so since we don't know what the police officer said we're going to have to kind of guess and just look at the body camera and just what might be common sense so there was a struggle over the taser and it was because of that patrick loyola had control the taser is the thinking of why the police officer shot so the reasonable question is is it reasonable for a police officer to be in fear of their own death if someone has a taser so that would be the first question so if anybody has any comments about that you know we'll definitely get get to him here as i'm going through this case we also have a poll up uh that says should the d.a uh have charged the officer in the killing of patrick loyola so should the so in order for a district attorney to charge someone in the first place um not only do they have to have you know probable cause that a crime has been committed for the individual to be arrested but da's have to work or they're supposed to be have in good faith that they can secure a conviction so in good faith that they can prove these charges beyond a reasonable doubt so that's pretty much the standard that we're looking at when it comes to should the da have charged patrick loyola so if you want to put your answer in the poll right now it looks like 60 percent of the people say that the d.a should have charged and 40 percent say that the individual shouldn't so we do have a question here from bill that says was he taking the officers uh was he taking the officer's taser policy is to shoot so i'm not sure if if a policy would exactly say that but where i think you're getting at is that you know policy likely says that if uh maybe it's in training but policy likely says that you know if you're in fear of death or great bodily injury that you know as a police officer you can use deadly force so let's just walk through this for one second so if an individual has a taser and they use the taser against the police officer well that police officer would be incapacitated once the police officer was incapacitated by the taser for at least five seconds the individual who tased the police officer would be able to take the police officer's gun or find a bat or a stick or their fists and essentially do anything they wanted to to the police officer so it's not the actual tasing the five-second tasing that isn't what would be considered deadly it's the fact that a police officer would be incapacitated by someone who might have bad intentions and if you look at things that would point to evidence of bad intentions that would be someone who committed a crime who was already actively involved in a fight with a police officer uh okay let's see what else we got going on in the chat here let's see policy is not law grim reaper radio show policy is not law exactly exactly so there are so police officers have to follow the laws and then also policies so typically the way police departments work is when they create policies they make it more restrictive than law so you have a law that allows police officers to do certain things and typically policies and police departments allow what's in the law and a lot of times less than what's allowed in the law as police departments are able to do that so again just remember that our poll is up about should the d.a have charged the officer in the killing of patrick loyola now one of the interesting things in this case is that when it comes to the use of uh when it comes to the use of a of a taser is a taser at least the new tasers the x7 tasers that officers sure had did the officer that the officer sure had can be fired twice so when i watch the video the body camera video you can definitely see where officer sure fires it once but it there are some reports now that it's possible that it was fired twice so if the taser was fired twice the question that i would ask is could it still be considered a deadly weapon against the police officer if it could not be fired anymore now obviously it could still be used in drive stun mode which is essentially taking the taser and and pulling the trigger and then touching the taser to someone but that's different than actual probes coming out being shot out of the taser all right so um let's see what we got here going on the chat about this uh okay uh let's see if a cop is okay so sean ivey says if a cop is wrestling with someone over a taser and can't get it he should shoot because if he loses it and gets tased he risks getting shot by his own gun if it's stolen or he could be beaten bad and yeah that's so that's exactly what i said so so again what what a reasonable police officer would be thinking isn't that oh this is gonna be really irritating to get tased and it's gonna hurt for five seconds that isn't what a police officer is thinking the police officer a reasonable officer would be thinking if i'm tased and if i am incapacitated what could this person do to me essentially all the tools that are on an officer's belt would be available to the individual who just used a taser against a police officer so you can imagine that a reasonable police officer might want to avoid a situation like that let's see so the officer may not have known that it was fired twice that is uh bill said that and that is in that is a great point because when i watched the video it seemed like it was only fired once the d.a in his press conference yesterday he said that one of the reasons why he waited for the charging decision is because he was waiting for the report from taser and the report from taser would show exactly when the trigger was pulled and how many times so there had to be a reason why that da was waiting for that taser report my guess this is just a guess is that the d.a was also waiting to see if it had been fired so if if us watching a video from the comfort of our own homes can't tell if a taser is being fired a police officer who is involved and engaged in an active fight with someone who has taken a weapon from them it could be one of the most stressful situations that anyone including a police officer might go through and we know that when it comes to human performance that human performance diminishes and so does memory when people are involved in incredibly stressful incidents and situations so the idea that a police officer might not have realized in the moment that it was fired twice that is a completely reasonable thing that could have happened and i have a feeling that is going to be a huge part of the defense in this case if the taser was fired twice all right uh so yeah is that taser can still be used in drive stun mode correct yeah i said that yeah absolutely 100 so even if the both cartridges of the taser had been shot the taser could still be used in drive stun mode that is a 100 correct uh let's see okay so we have a lot of people commenting is it because he was black so when it comes to questions like this i i think all questions like this have to be evidence-based so if there was any indication that officer sure had any problems with race or anything like that those would be relevant factors that would come out at trial um as of now in all the reporting even from the reporting um from from ben crump the attorney for patrick loyola's family there hasn't been any evidence or anything about that so you know until anything like that comes out i i don't think questions like that should really be a part of the factual basis of what happened and again patrick loyola had been arrested multiple times before without incident his skin color didn't change the only thing that changed with his behavior he ran he fought and he took a weapon from a police officer all right and i also want to thank the the fans from last week for the for the super chat we had a couple people who really wanted their questions answered so they used the super chat feature and what that does is essentially with a lot of people commenting it lets us know immediately who who um who asked that question so we can get to that really quick um and also um we did dress up the set uh uh a little bit here um and so it's not just a black background so um we had some people who worked really hard on it so if you could put in the chat whether you guys um like that or not and i think it's i think it's a very professional and a better set than it was before so if you can go ahead and let us know what your opinions are on that um how old was patrick um siegel rock squad so i i could be wrong i think he was 28 years old so i think he was in his later 20s and uh he had been in the country for i believe somewhere in around 10 years is what i is what i heard um okay so he was so it looks like he was 26 years old and um so one of the things with in the initial contact with patrick is it was it appeared clear to the police officer officer sure that patrick's first language wasn't english because you know patrick got out during a traffic stop which isn't typical most people when they stop by the police they stay in the car so you know instead of doing what we've seen on a lot of different police body cams when someone exits a vehicle police officers have their guns drawn and they're yelling and they're screaming orders instead of doing that the officer sure he walks up to patrick in a pretty calm voice and he goes hey man i'm conducting a traffic stop here and then when patrick gives him a strange look he says do you speak english so it was in response that that patrick said yes so there have been some reports indicating that patrick didn't understand what was going on those seem not to be based in fact and again also patrick had been arrested and stolen vehicles multiple times so he seems to know what the process is for a traffic stop um all right also so we're going to do maybe one more question or so on patrick loyola and then i think we're going to switch over to a different a different story so any last questions or comments and don't forget to look at that poll okay so the should the da charge the officer in killing patrick loyola looks like it's changed a little bit we have 36 percent of people who said yes 64 percent of people say no that that he should not have been he should not have been charged um all right okay all right so we're going to go ahead and switch gears here a little bit so the other big story that was in the news this week and and on my channel i i covered this a bunch and it's been almost everywhere and i think it's a really interesting case it's a tragic case but it's an interesting case because it not only talks about something that you know we all kind of care about a loss of life but it also talks about some larger issues when it comes to law enforcement and police departments and what type of policy police officers should have so we're going to go to may 28th of this year in tempe arizona there was an individual named sean bickings and he drowned a little bit more of the back story there is that police officers were called to a domestic disturbance in tempe arizona near a reservoir really early in the morning i think it was around 5 30 in the morning and the call for service was that there were two individuals the male and female who were arguing police officers got there contacted the woman who was named susan and sean bickings essentially they did an investigation and found that there aren't any criminal charges so no one so no one was um so no one was under arrest there were there was no criminal charges or anything like that um while they were still talking to sean uh they did decide to run him for warrants so they were had called into ncic on the police radio and they were waiting for that to come back which is something typical that police officers do while they're interacting with people during this time sean steps over a four-foot metal fence and starts walking down towards the water as soon as he does it the police officers say hey man what are you doing he goes down to the water he tells police officers that he's going for a swim immediately the police officers say you're not allowed to swim in there you can't swim in there he says something to the effect of i'm free to leave and i'm going for a swim well he swims out about 30 to 40 yards and after about 30 to 40 yards he starts to have some trouble he starts to have some problems by this time the police officers had already notified dispatch that sean had gone into the water so whatever dispatch did on their end i'm we're not sure yet but police officers did alert emergency communications what was going on and the issue what we what we come to is when sean starts to yell that he's drowning he's drowning the police officers don't go in after him one of them says i'm not going in after you and i think we have a a clip of the body cam so let's go ahead and play that really quick producer nick sorry guys i'm sorry what are you doing my friend huh what do you do first there was a duck in the lake you're not allowed to swim in the lake [Music] really [Music] okay so if we break this down a little bit and we take the first decision from the police officers is basically to not use force or to besides telling sean to not go into the water and then that you're not you're not allowed to they didn't use any enforcement action to try to get him to not go in the water so we're gonna put up a poll question about this um and just you know it's gonna we're gonna talk about should the cops have um jumped into the into the lake so if you think about that think about some questions or comments you might have but i'm going to keep going through it so the decision from the police officers so it seems like at least in tempe it's it's it's illegal it's some type of city ordinance so a low-level crime to notch up into a lake so there's some criticism that the police officer should have you know gone hands-on with sean should have used force in order to prevent him from doing this but you can see in a lot of other situations when it comes to low-level crimes that police officers are criticized for enforcing that we can all imagine a situation where police officers tried to go hands-on with sean essentially to enforce the no swimming law and there's a tasing or on for or if there's an officer-involved shooting and they would have said the reasonable people would ask the question what was the lawful objective why are police officers trying you you know using high levels of force to prevent people from swimming that would have been the question so so the police officers not enforcing in the moment a low-level crime i i think it's it's reasonable why a police officer might not do that now let's come to the question of should police officers jump in the water so i'm going to give my thoughts on that after i address a couple questions and comments that are in the chat just to see kind of what everybody is thinking about this so and again just remember there's a poll up should cops have jumped into the lake to save uh the the uh the man who jumped in sean um so continual stroke 313 says he should have grabbed him while he was on the gate sure yeah no i think that's i think that's um a reasonable thing that a lot of people think so if we have to think about it from that the police officers probably weren't expecting him to do that and then even if he's over i don't think the officers were expecting him to go into the water obviously had with the benefit of hindsight them knowing what would happen my guess is they would have put a lot more effort into the front of this but you know sean pretty much went over the fence quickly um he didn't tell the police officers he was doing it by the time the police officers realized what happened they said you know pretty much in a calm voice like hey man what are you doing and you know where he said am i free to go which at that point he was he wasn't under arrest um there was nothing there's no probable cause or any he wasn't in police custody uh let's see what else so the police did the right thing i wouldn't have risked my life for a criminal oh goodness um so so it's it's i i i think it's important to talk about like what are the capabilities of police officers so what i mean by that is if anyone is saying that the police and there are a lot of people who are saying the police officers should have done something to help sean once he was in the water well we have to think about it this way and i'm not saying that the police officers shouldn't but we're not there yet at least for the tempe police department because the police officers have no training when it comes to water rescue so that would be the first thing they also have they don't have any equipment they don't have a life vest they don't have any devices for flotation or anything like that also there is no requirement in arizona or in any state that i'm aware of that police officers know how to swim so it's very possible that these police officers don't know how to swim and as i was preparing for this and doing a couple stories on this this week i did look to try to see if there was any research from the experts because i'm not a water rescue expert few people are but in looking at four looking in at what water rescue efforts have to say about not only people who aren't trained going in to save an individual but a police officer who has 30 pounds of duty gear so a police officer has a bulletproof vest a gun belt which has a gun a taser a radio handcuffs sometimes a backup gun also heavy duty boots so to jump in a water with 30 pounds of extra gear without any training at all on how to do water rescue without any type of a life vest seems like an unreasonable thing well then some people say well the police officer should have just taken all that stuff off well maybe but then where do you put it do you just leave it on the deck so anybody can just grab the all of the police officer's gear so it just seems like there has to be a policy put in place there has to be water rescue training and that police officers have to be given equipment on how to handle this thing because if a community of a society wants the police officers to behave in a certain manner they have to set the police officers up for um to be successful in these in in these these types of situations so duke city gaming has an interesting comment even olympic swimmers would get dragged away by the undercurrent true yeah i think that's and and that's in duke city gaming that's that's exactly where i was going with this because in preparation for doing a couple stories on this and then for today i did find that the american journal for emergency medicine does journal articles and i looked and there was one from about a year ago june of 2021 where they essentially did an article and they looked at all of the incidents of where people who aren't trained in water rescue try to perform water rescues they did a comprehensive study on it and i said this came out about a year ago and what they found is that and what their recommendations are is that if you aren't trained in water rescue and you try to perform one on an adult there is a high likelihood that you're going to die as well you're going to drown as well and that it's not safe to do and it's not recommended what they say is you call for emergency services try and throw some flotation device or a rope let's see so when it comes to the pole should cops should cops have jumped into the lake to save the man so 26 percent say yes 74 no so i kind of went through what my opinion and some of my thoughts were it it's that if you want police officers to do this you have to give them training you have to make sure that they know how to do this and you have to give them equipment such as life vet so i'm not saying they should never be required to do it but we have to give them some training and equipment to do it so the people who are saying yes there's 26 percent of people who are saying police officers should have so if any of you can just put in the comments of why police officers should have done this um i'm really interested in what people think they have the opposite opinion of me and some of the other people um so we go into the into the comments and we look let's see uh so someone says that if it were a little girl they they would have tried to figure something out so okay so let's let's let's they also so let's let's talk about that so guess if it's a reasonable police officers again with no training with 30 pounds of gear trying to save a 200 pound plus man is different than a police officer under those circumstances trying to save a 40-pound little girl a hundred percent a hundred percent not only is there a sympathy factor when it comes to children which i think all of us have whether you're a police officer or not but just the sheer common sense of it trying to save one who's 40 pounds or 60 pounds and who's a small child is is going to be just logically a whole lot easier than saving a grown adult man who is 200 plus pounds so so i think we have to use a little bit of common sense and reason when it's when it comes to that um and i i think that the best analogy that i can come up with for this is that so do we expect police officers to run into burning buildings when there's a fire in order to save someone again without any equipment without any training well most people would say no we don't expect police officers to do that now if they do it is heroic it is brave and we all appreciate that but it shouldn't be expected so police officers without training and equipment jumping into a lake to try to save someone really should be on the same level as police officers running into a burning building if they do it it's great it's fantastic it's heroic and brave but if they don't i my opinion is that it's reasonable why they wouldn't do it and when we look at the polar numbers are about the same so about three quarters of the people don't think that the police officers should have jumped into the lake to rescue the men now the department does have a policy on this so the policy from the tempe police department is if this happens they are supposed to let dispatch know and call for the police boat and also to request firefighters to come unseen and police officers did both so as soon as this occurred police officers requested the fire department and a lifeboat to dispatch the scene so when it comes to the actual tempe policy it seems like the officers followed what they were trained to do in this in this case okay so jesse said a little kid may not know better this was a grown adult man not listening so i i think that's a good point and i think that goes to the sympathy factor so you know if you have if if you tell a grown adult to not do something and they do it anyways a lot of people think well you know adults can do what they want if you have a child or even an adult who accidentally falls in wasn't trying to do something intentional that might differ a different sympathy trigger so i think that's a reasonable thing to say because everybody's human um let's see what we got here uh yeah bh says throw a ring mental health yeah so if they had a life vest or if they had some type of flotation devices also just like in buildings there are fire extinguishers you know that anybody can use so on at this reservoir why isn't there or or is there a similar thing where there's also life vests or other type of flotation devices available that anyone including the police officers could access so if those are if those aren't there why not and if they are did the police why haven't they been trained on how to use those and where those are but i think things like that are a reasonable step to maybe help prevent this in the future uh let's see if we go into the the chat let's see if anybody else has any questions and yeah the poll is about the same so about 70 of people think that um the police officers should not have jumped in um yeah in talking with people this week there were a lot of people who were lifeguards and other rescue people who and firefighters who actually have rescue training water rescue training who made comments um to the effect of like you know even though that they have this water rescue training and they know how to do it that without a life vest that it's extremely unsafe to do so do we have any people who are experts in in water rescue training or have lifeguard training be interested in what your thoughts about this are because you would really be the subject matter experts when it comes to this particular issue all right do we have any other questions or comments about those cases also there are a couple other cases that are going on in the news this week that we're probably not going to be able to get too much today but i'm just going to touch on them i'm just going to touch on them really quick uh so uh the the shooting in uvalde uh the police chief of the school district pete arredondo he gave a phone interview yesterday to a newspaper in texas and he had some interesting comments that are being reported also there was it hasn't been it's been reported a little bit but there was a individual in alabama who was armed who tried to get into a school a couple days ago and there was a school resource officer who was on scene and the reports that we're getting is that the school resource source officer confronted the individual outside of the school the individual was trying to get into multiple doors that the school resource officer contacted the individual there was a struggle and then the officer was involved in a shooting and killed the individual so i know the last week and even the week before we talked a lot about the officer involved shooting in in uvalde or i'm sorry we talked about it but it was an officer of shooting but it was the the tragedy where 19 children and two teachers were were killed in uvalde texas that you know what are some things that we can do to prevent it and there are there almost isn't any one law one policy one thing that we can do across the board but some easy things to do some some people say common sense is to have an armed police officer at every school it just makes sense and one of the reasons why is is exactly what happened in alabama because if it's even a little bit more difficult for the bad guy to get into the school that's a good thing and it's much better for the police officer to have a firefight with an individual outside of the school than inside of the school and let's see if we have any other interesting things in the chat have you seen the camac police video thoughts no and again i'm kathy thank you for the question i tried to stay up on these and i try to follow as many of these as i can there are a lot of news stories this week so i'm not familiar with that but if that's all i need i can go ahead and look into it otherwise if it was an officer-involved shooting if you could just put the name of the individual in the chat i'd be more than happy to look at it for next week let's see any other comments in the chat well again i just want to thank everyone for coming to our live event again we're going to try to do this every friday um we typically like to take some of the main issues that happen in the world of law enforcement and in the world of of policing and dissect him a little bit so in all of these issues and incidents there are common questions and just having a space where we can talk about him and go through comments and questions in real time is something that we're really trying to do here in cop watch tv so with that um we're going to sign off again my name is daniel you can go ahead and follow me at police law news on tick tock or on youtube also please make sure that you like and subscribe to cop watch tv and make sure you get the notification so you know when we are going live and we put out videos every week multiple videos a week so you definitely want to make sure you definitely want to make sure that you're aware when those videos are coming out and that you can see them also the next video that we have coming out is there's a naked guy trying to get a police helicopter down so that should be an interesting video and that'll be coming out very soon so just make sure you subscribe so you can be one of the first people to see that add comments and then you know we can probably talk about it next week all right everybody have a safe weekend thank you you

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