I set the baby on fire, >> right? >> I mean, I did I I did it. >> Did what? >> I killed a I killed a child. I killed a baby. I >> Yeah. I mean >> I mean I >> would you say you you murdered it? >> I would Yeah, I would have to say that's what I did. >> Early on September 7th, 1997, the body of a newborn boy was found in a flower bed beside the statue of Moses in Washington Park in Albany, New York. He had been wrapped in cloth and the cloth had been set on fire. The medical examination would establish that he had been born alive and healthy. No one came forward. No mother was identified. He became known simply as baby Moses. And for 27 years, the case stayed open. What finally moved it was science. Forensic specialists developed a usable DNA profile from evidence that had been preserved since the discovery. And with federal assistance, that profile led Albany detectives to one woman, Carrie Mazooka, 52, a mother of two, living in the town of Altoont. In the late summer of 1997, she had been 25 and newly settled in Albany. On the morning of September 6th, 2024, detectives sat down with her. They asked about her family. They asked about her pregnancies. They asked if she would give a sample of her DNA. Nothing in their opening questions told her she was the reason she was in the room. This is the interrogation of Carrie Mazuka. >> Has anyone No one in the family's talked about losing someone that never got accounted for? Younger though, like young. >> No, I mean my aunt Connie didn't have kids. My aunt Bonnie has two boys. My uncle George had three kids. >> Okay. Let me ask you this. Back 9697 1997, [clears throat] right? Anyone um any of them end up being pregnant? >> My sister? No. >> Okay. So I think that's >> But any at that time did any was anybody pregnant and then like no one never saw the kid or anything? >> No. >> No, >> not not that I'm aware of. No, >> not that you're aware of. >> Again, I mean I'm not close close to my cousins, but I >> to to the best of your knowledge, do you know if any of your cousins were ever down in the Albany area back in the '90s? possibly to go to like Crossgates and shopping and stuff like that. Not living. No, not that I'm aware of. No. >> Um I I didn't even ask you. Um so you said you have two kids, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um any other kids? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> Um I know this is kind of a personal question, but I have to it's one of the things I got to ask. Um, how many times you've been pregnant? >> Two. >> Two. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Very easy. Very >> easy pregnancies. >> No issues. >> No. >> What about after? Because like my wife, she got the postpartum. Do you ever get that? >> No. >> Really? Good for you. It was >> No. >> It was a tough time in the lawyer household. >> It wasn't really. >> Oh my god. >> No. I um I support system. >> Okay. >> You know, and it was they were good. >> Okay. Very cool. And I've, you know, I think I babysat for so many people in Roxberry. Like I was the town babysitter. >> Okay. >> That I think, you know, when I had my kids, it was easy for me because I'm used to crying, screaming children. >> Kind of prepared you. >> You know, >> that's a hard thing to get used to. Trust me. >> You're uh the father of your two children, Josh and Hannah. >> Yes. >> Uh you guys still together or? >> No, we're divorced. >> Divorced. Um, did you meet him in Roxberry or down here? >> Nope. Here. >> Here. >> We worked together. Yeah. >> At Tri City. >> Nope. At Camry >> at the the living resources knew. Yeah. Gotcha. >> Uh, so when did you meet him? How long after you came here? >> I met him immediately cuz we worked together, but then we started dating probably 2 years later. He was actually engaged. >> Okay. Um, so part of this is we're going around, we're trying to collect DNA samples from people. All right. To try and match to um the remains and that that we're doing. Is that something you'll be able to help us out? Give us a sample of DNA. Okay. Um yeah, we can do that here in a moment. >> So, the remains were found where? Can you tell me that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, are you familiar with this area at all >> within Washington Park? I've seen it during Tulip Festival. >> Okay. Have you ever been here? Just look uh the only time I ever gone to Washington Park was uh Tulip Festival. >> Tulip Fest. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, where these flower beds are over here, right by this road, this is where the remains are found. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, but I mean easy. >> I'm sorry. I've got goosebumps. >> Oh, it's horrible. I mean, it is it's, you know, every I'm sure whoever, you know, whatever happened, there's an explanation cuz generally there's an explanation everything that happens cuz it happened, right? >> Um, you know, it's just a matter of figuring it out. You know, >> it's cool, you know, and it's like I said, this is a this is a baby if you couldn't tell. >> Um, I want to throw up. Like that's gross. >> I know it. I mean, here's the thing, though, is, you know, we're just trying to figure out what happened to it. Um, you know, the remains, they are what they are. It's We're honestly trying to just fill in the blanks here. This is a historic event that happened. It It is what it is. Um, no one's changing that now. We're just trying to get some answers and figure out exactly what occurred, you know. Um, whoever you know the mother and father are have their reasons for whatever they did. I'm not saying it's right, but >> you know, you never know what kind of headsp space someone's in. Like you could look at me and I could appear put together, but I'm a mess in my personal life, you know? >> Um, >> and who who knows what's going on in their lives at the time, like you know, >> right? No, >> as far as turmoil, you know, what what's happening? >> And you know, the other interesting part about this is it's so long ago. It's 27 years ago. Like, no one's the same person they were 27 years ago. No one's the same person they were 27 days ago, >> right? >> So, that's what we're trying to sort out. But all we can do is ask the questions. And like I said, um I appreciate you. So, that's the family. Um >> yeah, I don't think >> at no point you don't remember your sister being pregnant in 1997 and you were never pregnant in 1997. Never miscarried. Never had a pregnancy before who's the older, Hannah or Josh? >> Nope. Hannah. >> Okay. Never had a child or were pregnant before Hannah? >> Nope. >> Okay. >> And to no one that you know of as far as cousin wise that was pregnant or that was in Albany or nothing that you can think of because I know you said that you weren't really close with them. >> No, I mean no. My two were in Vermont. Jess, not having a child? >> No. >> Okay. All right. Fair enough. Um, and I appreciate you helping us out with the DNA. That's actually a big help. Um, the other part of it is this. I'm not saying I don't believe you by any means, right? But one of the other things we kind of So, the best way to describe it is we're mixing old school and new school, right? We're doing this new school DNA stuff, but we're also doing the old school in the sense of um if people are willing to do it, uh we're trying to bring it back. Would you be willing to take a polygraph examination for us? >> Sure. >> Okay, awesome. >> Mazuka. And you said you moved here. It's actually 97 you moved here, >> I believe. Yes, because I graduated high school in 90, graduated college in '92, worked for the insurance company for 5 years. 3 4 5 6 9 Yes. >> Okay. >> And I moved in August. June. July. >> June. June or July. >> August. >> Okay. >> I'd have to, like I said, I'm so terrible with like dates, times, years, back, and year. But yeah. And that was the first apartment you've ever had? >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay, fair enough. Um I got to So part of the thing is, you know, we're asking people as we're going through um so this is a a very newborn baby that gets found. >> Um and we're trying to hash that out as to exactly what happened to it. Um, and we're just getting people's perspective, >> right? >> Like I mean this these are mains. They they get found in Washington Park. I mean in your mind, what would cause someone to leave a baby in a place? Anything you could think of? >> No. No. Cuz they have all those like hospitals, safe places. >> Yeah. say I sorry. >> I mean that that's what we're trying to wrap our head around. >> I no idea. No idea. That's >> I mean so there are some aggravating factors with this as well. >> I think especially like [clears throat] I how how >> right? I mean that's that's what we're trying to wrap our heads around and get from people. I mean, this happened and I think within short order we're going to be able to figure out um definitely who mom is, >> you know, and then we'll work through who dad is and you know, we got to collect all these DNA samples and go from there. I >> but you know the the thing about this is so I'm sorry I got to show you this but I do because it is important. Okay. The baby was actually set on fire. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So not only was it abandoned but >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. So we're trying to figure out Oh, >> exactly what happened to this baby. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> Cuz here's the thing, right? Is it could be a couple different things here. Um, we know the baby was alive. We know it breathed, had lung flowing through its airs, was healthy, was crying. Um, and then this happened. >> So, we're trying to figure out, you know, who did it obviously, right? >> Cuz in your mind, I mean, you see that what's that scream to you? >> It's crazy. >> But, I mean, as I said, everything's explainable, >> right? you know, um, but the it's not me, I don't know, especially when, you know, we can prove it, >> that's not a spot you want to be or someone wants to be in, I should say. >> Right. >> Right. Like if someone is truly related or the mother or father of this child, the best thing they could do when we talk to them, and this is just me thinking out loud, is the best thing they could do when we talk to them is be truthful, right? Like, uh, yeah. All right. Yeah. I this is what happened but I didn't do that or so and so did that you know but people that lie that ain't going to go their way right cuz everything gets figured out as I was telling you like that Golden State guy or all this stuff look at that the Gigiblio beach guy that killed all those girls >> right >> they figure it out you know because what they do is we end up you know we go we get DNA we make comparisons and God help someone if they lie cuz all you have your credibility, right? Cuz 27 years ago, baby Moses gets found here, right? And say we say you are mom, right? I'm not saying you are, but say you are, right? And we bring that you down here and you say, "No, I'm not the mother. I was never pregnant." Then what if that's not true? Like we could figure all that stuff out, right? And then what happens is we go, "Hey, guess what? We found this baby dead and burned and the mother said she's not the mother. What's that scream to you? If you're >> I did it. >> I did it. >> You did it. >> I did it. >> Look at what the first 20 minutes actually built. Every question about her family and her pregnancies ended in an answer that could be tested. Two pregnancies. Nothing before her daughter. No one in the family pregnant in 1997. She agreed to the swab. She agreed to a polygraph. None of it arrived as an accusation. So there was nothing to push back against. Then the order of information changed. First the location, then that the remains were a baby. Then what had been done to his body, then the fact that he had breathed and cried. Each step raised the stakes, and not once did the detective say her name. And the final move was not a question about 1997 at all. It was a question about the present. He took the denials she had just given him and described how they would sound once the science came back. In his framing, the death was already known. The only thing left undecided was whether the mother had lied about it. She did not let him finish. The admission came inside a hypothetical. From this point on, the detective's problem is no longer getting her to talk. It is getting the version that is true. >> What happened? >> I got pregnant. I had the baby. I gave birth in my bathtub. Baby died. Didn't know how to get rid of it. >> How' the baby die? >> I I I think I had water in the bathtub. I think it drowned. >> You drowned it? >> I didn't drown it. in that bathtub. >> Yes. >> Inside that apartment right there. >> Yes. >> Why'd you burn the baby? >> I didn't burn the baby. >> Who did? >> I don't know who did. >> Who did you give the baby to? >> I had the baby by myself. I went down to the park. I handed it to somebody. >> Who? James? >> I don't know. Some some random person. >> Carrie, that doesn't exist. >> I swear to God. >> You did not hand this baby to a random person. That didn't happen. >> I didn't know what to do. I set the baby on fire. >> Was it screaming? >> No, it was dead. It was dead. So, what'd you put the baby in? >> A towel. >> A towel. >> Cuz the doctor who did the autopsy says your version's [ __ ] >> I could have done it. >> No, what I'm saying is this baby was breathing for minutes. This baby was alive. >> I had it in the I did >> this. That doesn't lie. Let's all this is 27 years ago. Let's clean this up. Let's be done with this here and now. That baby died. Not a natural causes. >> I didn't kill the baby that I'm aware of. I had it in the bathtub. >> It didn't drown. There's no water in the lungs. That didn't happen. It's not of natural causes. There's no trauma. So, that leaves one thing. And you know what that one thing is? suffocation. >> Yeah. >> Here's the thing. I get it. You're all alone. 1997. You probably moved here cuz you're pregnant and you were trying to hide it. >> I did not. I moved here for a job. >> Moved here for a job. >> I didn't know I was pregnant until after I moved here. >> Okay. Fair enough. And that Listen, I'm not disagreeing with that. It's probably the truth. >> That is the truth. But we can we know definitively that this child breathed. We know it was taking breath in its little lungs. All right. If you freaked out and did this, that's fine. We need to know. Look. >> Yes. >> Guess what? >> I suffocated the child >> with what? >> To put in a bag. put in a van. Did you cover his mouth? His nose >> I that I don't remember. I I don't remember that part. I may have. I don't know that I put it in a bag, though. >> Okay, let's talk about this. Did you hear the baby cry and screaming? >> I did not. >> You didn't hear the baby cry? >> No, I swear. Not that I remember. I don't hear I do not remember hearing the baby crying. >> We put him in a bag and we know he's alive. We like we definitely know that from the doctor, >> you know, >> cuz an autopsy was completed on the baby and that's how we know the baby didn't drown. >> So that's what we need to figure out. And we honestly want to know because there's, you know, the one thing I've consistently said about this whole thing is there. I have more questions than I have answers. I hate being in that spot, you know? So, we're trying to figure that out and we need to flush that out so we can all >> move forward. This is a long, long time ago. >> You know what I mean? So, you have the baby in the tub. It doesn't drown. >> No. >> Okay. >> I did have it in the tub. I I don't remember covering its mouth and nose. Did I? Maybe. I do remember putting it in the bag. I don't remember hearing it crying. What kind of bag? >> I think like a a Walmart type. >> Plastic bag. >> Okay. And then how'd you get down to Washington Park? >> Drunk. >> You drunk? You were by yourself? >> Yeah. 1,000%. >> What kind of car did you have back then? Think >> we had a Honda Civic. >> What color was it? >> Green and blue. Green and blue. >> I think it was like a greenish bluish color. Gotcha. >> I think that was a car that I had at that time. >> So, you put the baby in a bag. >> Did you have a name picked out? >> No. >> When And when did you figure out you were pregnant? I'm just curious. >> I moved to Albany and then it was probably like a month later. I didn't you know I I I was living home with my parents and >> Yeah. I didn't. >> Did you ever go see a doctor about being pregnant? >> No. >> So, nobody knew. >> No. >> It was just you found out and kind of kept it to yourself. >> Like I said, I gave birth in the bathtub. >> Yeah. >> And then you go to Washington Park. At any point, did you see any when you're on your way down there, did you see any police stations? Did you see any hospitals? Did you see any >> No, I No. >> Right. They just >> You just wanted to get rid of the baby. >> How did you figure out to set it on fire? I >> I don't know. I I don't >> Do you remember if you use matches or a lighter? >> I think matches. I think I have a lighter. >> Matches? >> I think. >> Why? I don't I I don't. So, I got to ask you the natural thing because based on the way the baby's found, um, >> did you hear her scream cry as the baby was burning? >> No, I think the baby was dead at that point. >> At what point before or after you leave your house did the baby die? >> I think before. >> Before like how long after? Because, you know, I I've had kids. I've been in the delivery room and my wife's had kids. I want you to think back to Hannah and Josh. And were those um natural births or were those C-sections? >> No, those are natural. >> Natural. >> So, I want you to think back to that. Like, you remember how after you had Hannah or Josh, how you hear that first cry, >> right? Yeah. No, I Yes, I do. I was older. I was >> I mean, here's the thing. You You're what? Four, five when this happened. >> Mhm. >> 97. >> Yeah. I was born in 72 82 92 2002. >> What when was it? 97. >> So >> 25. >> I mean Yeah. Yeah. You're your kid at that point. Well, I say that now older, but um you know when you heard that with Hannah, when you heard that with Josh, I want you to think back with this cuz it's not I didn't hear it. You'd remember it. I mean, >> I don't remember. I I don't remember the crying. >> I I don't remember it. No. >> Do you remember the baby looking at you? >> No. No. I think I was just so Like I said, gave birth in the bathtub, was dealing with myself. I don't think I really I I don't have I I don't remember it crying. I don't remember. >> Did you see remember moving? >> No, not No. I mean, it was I think I was just trying to take care of myself, you know. >> Yeah. How' you How did you start the umbilical cord? >> Scissors. >> Scissors. Okay. >> I mean, here's the thing. We know from what the doctor told us, right, that this baby was taking breaths, was alive, right? So, what we need to sort out now between us three in this room so we can all be done with it and move on is how exactly this baby died, right? I mean, here's the thing. I >> I must have suffocated it. I mean, that's all I can and I my recollection like I blocked it. >> Let's do this. I want you to take a deep breath and we're going to go on a time warp to 1997. September 1997. Was it night or early morning when you had the baby? I >> think was it evening? >> Evening. So 27 years ago today, actually, September 6th of 1997, that means that baby was born. That's what I mean. It's been a long time. Let's sort this out, the three of us, and get past it together, and then we're done with it. But people need answers. Yourself included, too. >> Right? >> This is solid self-reflection on what occurred. And you're not that person anymore. I can tell. >> No, not >> I can tell you're not that person anymore. Grew up. You had two kids. You live the American dream. You got a nice old piece of land on O Strander Road. Nice little yellow house. Got a nice car. You have a good thing. Okay. So, let's be this the last time we go through this and let's be honest. We'll do it together. and then we'll all move on together. Okay. >> So, 27 years ago on today's date in the evening hours, >> I believe it was even. >> Yeah. You believe it was evening. >> How long were you in labor? >> I I I don't I mean, I don't know because it was my first child. I I was young. I don't know. >> Yeah. I I just know that I was having pains and I got in the bathtub to kind of like cuz I read online, you know, whatever. >> Yeah. >> But you you knew you were pregnant, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. Were you showing? >> I don't believe really. No. Nobody ever questioned me. >> Really? Some people carry it. Some people. >> Even with my other two though, I wasn't. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I Yeah, but >> Okay. And how long do you think you were in the bathtub? 45 minutes, an hour maybe. >> And prior to this, had you gone and seen the doctor, an OB, anything? >> No. >> No. Okay. So, you carry this baby? Um, >> the only reason I know I was pregnant is because I didn't get my period. >> Right. When did you notice you didn't get your period? >> I think when I moved up here. Like, you know, I was living with my parent like I didn't I was young. I was stupid. I didn't really pay attention. >> Yeah. >> But I've always been off and had issues and stuff. So, it was not anything out of the ordinary. >> Yeah. No, it happens. That's sometimes it goes a little long. It's not a science, you know. >> Um >> Okay. So, then you start getting cramps and you've done some research on your own online. Um told you get in the bathtub. >> Mhm. >> So, you get in the bathtub and then what happens? I just kind of sat there and then I just felt like pressure >> and then I just felt the baby coming out and >> Yeah. >> Cuz here's the thing of this is do you remember cleaning the baby off at all? >> I don't remember cleaning the baby off >> cuz babies just come out. I mean, you've seen >> Yeah. >> They don't look like that. So, this baby was cared for somewhat. >> I don't I mean, I think I blocked it out. I don't I don't remember cleaning the baby off. I don't. >> Well, we need to unblock it so we can figure this out. >> I mean, I gave birth in the bathtub. I mean, I may have like with towels because I was in the water anyway. >> Yeah. But then I remember putting the baby outside the tub cuz I was cutting my trying to figure out the available footboard. >> Was that slippery with moving around and stuff? Like do you have to get a good grip? >> I'm assuming I I would have to have Yeah, >> cuz her little arms though. You know what I mean? Um and >> I don't even know if it was a boy or a girl. It >> was a boy. boy for a son who's boy and then you clean yourself up. Do you have to carry the baby out to get the scissors? >> No, I had the scissors with me. >> So you would knew this was going to happen. You wanted to be prepared. Okay. And then you cut the umbilical cord. Were you still in the tub when you cut it? >> Yes. Okay. >> And then I stayed in the tub cuz I didn't know like what was going to happen >> with the umbilical cord. I got you. All right. Well, now we got to talk about the part where the baby stops and we got to do an honest account of that with each other. Not a I think cuz this is something you don't forget. >> You probably haven't thought about it in a long time, but it's definitely something you don't forget. >> I put my hands over its mouth and nose. >> Are you sure? Yeah. >> And then you press down. >> I Yeah, I think. >> No, not I think. It's either did or did didn't. And I'm not pressuring you to say something, but I need a definitive answer here. >> Yes. >> Yes. What? >> I pressed down. >> Did the baby stop crying when you did that? Again, I don't remember the baby crying, but it must have. I don't remember the baby crying. I >> I want you to think back to 1997 when you had your hand over on the nose. Did you feel those little breaths hitting your hand? >> Yes. >> How long until it stopped? >> 10 minutes. I I I don't know. >> You held your hand on me for 10 minutes. I >> I I don't timing. I don't know >> why. >> I Why did I do it? >> Yeah. >> I think I just had no clue what I I think I was just in shock. >> You're in shock. Had you met Jason yet at that point? >> We were working together. >> Did you like him at that point? >> No, he was engaged. You know who we weren't. We were just worked co-workers. >> So this is something you were young and you were scared. >> Yeah. He doesn't even know about this. >> Have you ever told anyone? >> No. >> Nobody? >> Well, you never told anybody? >> Not mom, dad, sister, nobody. >> Just kept it inside the whole time. >> Yeah. >> Now, I got to ask you this cuz it's been a long time. After 27 years, how have you never told to anyone? >> I'm ashamed. I'm embarrassed. I blocked it out of my memory. >> I didn't even know today was the date. Like, I just like wiped it. >> What's it feel like to kill someone? >> Terrible. Terrible. [snorts] >> Like, walk me through your emotions. I always ask everyone that's killed someone, and you're not the first person. >> Shame, embarrassment, hatred of myself. When did that kick in? >> Immediately. >> After you did it? >> Mhm. >> So, after you pressed on that baby's >> face and you you recall pushing on his face? >> I do know. Yes. >> And you felt those little breaths >> hit in your hand >> and then you felt them stop. >> How long after that did you take this baby down to wash them? >> An hour or two. >> An hour or two. And that's a towel, you said. >> I believe it was a towel. A blanket or towel. >> And you put >> Was it a towel? >> Kind of looks like a pillowcase. It does kind of look. >> Could be a towel. I don't know. Pillowcase. Towel. Some sort of cloth object. Did you wrap it in that? >> Yes. >> But the baby was definitely dead before you set it on fire, right? >> Yes. >> A thousand% it was dead before I left the apartment. you killed. >> I I I believe it was that before I left the apartment. I can't say 100% sure because I didn't, you know, feel pulse or anything. I didn't >> If you had Let me ask this. If you had not done what you did, would that baby still be alive today? >> Yes. Yes. >> Anything we didn't ask you that you think's important? No. >> Did you go to Do you remember what day of the week it was that this happened? Was it not sure? Did you go to work after? I >> think it might have been a weekend. No, I didn't go to work after. So, no, it was evening. >> Evening. >> So, I wouldn't have gone to work. >> Why Park? >> That's a good question. I think I just was new to the area and didn't know and just >> Yeah, I don't know. I mean, >> it was such a crazy location that anybody >> Do you remember seeing all the stuff on the news about it? >> I do not. I walked I don't I didn't watch the news after >> a lot of people actually showed up to that funeral. >> A lot of people Thank you. A lot of people for a lot of years >> were wondering >> wanted to know. Not even for someone to be in trouble. No, people don't care. People want to just want to know. >> Knocked it out. I just, you know, I I just even today I I just like it. >> If you could say anything to that baby right now, what would it be? >> I love you and I'm sorry. >> If he asked you, why'd you do this to me? I was young, stupid, and >> that's And it's If I could show you the Panorama one, went all the way around. >> Did you ever go back to the park? >> No, never. >> No. I mean, I've gone for like the Tulfest or something like that. >> But not >> No. >> Did you ever go when you went for Toolfest, did you ever go to this area? >> No. >> I mean, just walking around with friends or whatever, but I just like I said, I I blocked it out. But after reopening that today here with us, um I want to make sure that I have this correct and I'm not misstating anything. And this is your account as you recall it. You moved here in the summer of 1997. You began working at Camry. Told you I'd remember it. >> Okay. You start working at Camry. You meet Jason at that time. You guys don't become romantically involved until about a year and a half later. >> Yeah. you knew you were pregnant. You didn't go seek care for it. You didn't really show that much. You did research online. So, in the evening hours, we know of September, right, from what we're talking about. But, as you recall, the evening hours, you started feeling cramping and you believe that was you about to give birth. >> You got a pair of scissors. You went into the bathtub where you ran warm water. Oden. >> Yes. >> Where you ran warm water and then you delivered the baby. You pull the baby out. You cut the umbilical cord. Cut it with your right hand or your left hand. >> I'm right-handed. Right hand? >> Right-handed. Okay. You recall baby moving around. You don't recall if it was crying, but you know it was alive cuz it was moving. You put the baby down. >> You You cut the umbilical cord. You take care of yourself. And then you placed your hand over the baby's nose and mouth and applied pressure until the baby stopped moving. >> Did you know you were going to kill it when you were doing that? >> Yes. I think yes. >> So you >> you knew what you were doing, but you did it. >> Correct. >> Right. I knew what I was doing. I was young. I was stupid. I I didn't you know. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, you intentionally kill this baby. Then after about an hour, you go to Washington Park and set the baby on fire. >> And if that baby were alive today, you would say, "I love you and I'm sorry." >> Yeah. Now that I'm older, wiser, have kids, and Yeah. >> Yeah. You're not. >> You're young, stupid, and >> Yeah. It's a long time ago, Carrie. A long time ago. >> Carrie, do you know who the father is? Where's he live? >> I have no idea. I have I >> How did you link up with him? >> We were in Roxberry together. >> Roxberry. >> He's old. Much older than Well, not much older, but he's older than I am. And >> like how much older? >> Uh 5 years. I think he's married now. And I don't know if he has kids. >> And that was a consensual thing you guys had done together. That wasn't >> It was consensual. Yes. He has no idea. He didn't even know I was pregnant. >> Okay. But I'm saying you weren't raped or anything like that. >> No. >> So you were just young and freaked out and killed this kid. >> Stupid. >> Yep. >> This who you believe the father was? >> Yes. >> And he's from Roxberry. Do you >> do you do you ever remember any romantic involvement with anyone? >> Were you like dating at the time? were. >> So, it was kind of a Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, that's why you're pretty confident that >> I know. I 100% know it was him. >> He was the only one I was sexually active with >> at that time. >> At that time. >> Okay. Okay. Gotcha. >> I don't know any Slater. >> No. >> I think uh that's a lot. I think we just talked about a whole lot. I got to ask you this. Are you presently thinking about harming yourself? >> No. >> Okay. >> No. >> You give me your word? >> Yes. That's why. >> Yeah. I don't I don't care what anyone has done. Like I >> I'm in a relationship. I'm happy. I'm you know my kids. >> Yeah. >> So now what now? >> I mean we got to figure out what's what now? I want to honestly just take a second and process everything we just talked about cuz it's and I'm sure you do too. >> I mean am I in trouble? Am I going to be arrested? Am I >> I mean I I can't definitively say that. I I honestly don't know. like, you know, it's so long ago and there's so many variables. I'm more mainly concerned with like I don't care if people get arrested or not as like just me as a cop. I I I never care about that. Um that's why I love investigations because I just >> all I want to do is just figure out what happened, >> right? >> Like if you didn't kill this kid, great. If you did >> Yes. >> Don't do that. >> No. You know, >> I just I >> I mean we we got to figure it out. Give me a minute to process everything we just said here. Um cuz it is a lot. I I honestly don't know, Carrie. Um you know, what do you think should happen out of this? >> Personally, if it was years ago, I think I should be in trouble. It's 27 years later. I've got my life back in order. I I I don't know. >> I mean, I did I I did it. >> Follow one thing across the last half hour. Who supplied each word? She offered drowning and the autopsy closed it. She offered a stranger in the park and the detective told her that person did not exist. The word suffocation came from him first. Her own language then moved in steps. I don't remember. I may have. I must have. I think until he refused the hedge, not I think, did or didn't. Only then did she say she pressed down. The recap that followed was built the same way. He told the knight back to her in his own sentences and asked her to confirm each one that the baby was moving, that she knew what she was doing, that she meant it. Confirming a sentence is easier than producing one, and every yes went into the record. Then he changed the kind of question. Not what happened, but what she thought should happen now. It invited her to pass judgment on herself, and she did. In the words you heard at the very beginning, the detectives stepped out. When they came back, the confession was not what interested them. The timeline was. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, it's been a long time. So, give me give me a minute here. Are you good with the water? You need anything else? Something to eat or Okay. >> No. >> Give Bob and I here a moment. All right. Okay. So, we um Bob and I were just talking about everything. You just had some followup stuff that we wanted to flush out with you. Um so, you said you didn't show at all. >> May I mean, >> like it's summer, you know? >> I But even with my other two, I didn't really I mean, I did a little but not I I don't like nobody noticed. Nobody asked me if I was pregnant. Nobody said anything to me. Nobody. >> Cuz I mean, we're kind of we're working off timelines like when did you realize you're pregnant before or after you moved to Albany? >> After. >> After. >> After. >> I don't I think like I said, I was young. I was stupid. I didn't You know what I mean? Like I don't think that I >> Maybe I was in denial. >> Yeah. >> I don't like my mom never asked me. I I don't >> Well, I mean, here's the thing. Just hear me out here for a second, right? Cuz based on the timeline, the earliest you could have moved here was June, right? >> I was I was sitting here trying to remember when I moved here. >> I I don't know when I started my job like in >> Gotcha. >> May. I mean, I I don't I I really truly do not know 27 years ago when I moved to AL. So, by all accounts, even if you came here in May, >> Mhm. >> if the baby's born in September, that means you were what? At least 4 months pregnant when you moved here. >> Most likely, yes. >> Right. So, and you I mean, here's the thing with periods. You get them every usually. You get them every month. >> I didn't I didn't I've had issues since I got it at 12. I you know I >> cuz here's here's where my head's at, right? And this is a logical question. And if it's the truth, it's the truth. It really doesn't matter, >> right? Like we could sit here and you could tell me, "Yes, I killed that baby." I don't care. If you told me if it was someone saying they sexually assaulted a child, that would probably upset me more, right? >> That ain't that this isn't that. Okay. Um, but I'm also applying common sense to what you're saying, right? And once again, I don't give a [ __ ] what happened. I really don't care. But my job is to hammer down what the truth is. >> Mhm. >> His, too. >> I mean, was I show I don't, like I said, no. >> Well, you might not have shown, right? That could very well be. All right. But my point of this is you don't get your period for 4 months. >> I should have questioned it at that time, but like I said, I got my period when I was 12 and I've never been >> Actually, this kind of makes sense. So, growing up, what was the family life like? >> It was great. >> Great. >> All American. Cuz I know a small town. >> My dad was corrections officer. My mom worked in the school, you know, it was great. >> Religious? >> No, not very. >> Okay. Um, what about like what would your parents have said if they found out you got pregnant at that time? >> They would have supported me. They would have done anything they could have to help me. >> Okay. Um, and the guy that got you pregnant, what was his name? What was his situation at the time? Were you guys dating or? >> Yes, sort of. Like we weren't like there was no one else. You know what I mean? I mean, we were in a small town. We were dating. I guess you could call it dating. Like we weren't together all the time. >> Do you guys ever talk about like getting married or anything? No. Just casual thing. >> Yeah. Because where I sit with this is well after you don't get your period at the earliest four months at the latest 6 months into being pregnant when you would ideally start showing you leave Roxberry and come to Albany. >> Right. >> That that was in the works prior. I I had been looking I applied in Coopertown. I had applied to jobs all over the place. >> Right. cuz I mean Roxberry it was not for me. There was there's >> I don't you know that's why I'm looking at you. It's small town. I was like I had to get out. So it wasn't a >> trust me if I still lived in Ashlin I'd be doing site work you know driving a dump truck. >> It wasn't because [snorts] I was pregnant that I was getting out. I was getting out because I didn't want to be there anymore. Like I had been looking like I said I applied in Coopertown. I applied all over the place for jobs and I was coming up here for different interviews and I got happened to get the job up here. >> So you had this job here when you came here. You were you had prior to >> that was the whole move was to come. >> Correct. >> Right. Like I said I had applied at like Basset Hospital and different I was just trying to get out of Roxberry. >> I got you. >> I didn't want to be small town anymore. So, how long before this thing happens do you start researching like cuz you said you looked up on the internet what to do with the other building. >> Once I realized I was pregnant. >> And how long do you think that was before? >> Probably like a month. >> A month. Okay. So, you know, I know you said you freaked out, right? But we got to I hate to do this to you and I'm sorry, but we got to go back in time. We got to do it again. All right. Um, we have to go back to the sights, the sounds, the smells, the feel of what happened in that apartment on Western Avenue in 1997. You start getting the cramps, you get the scissors, you go in the bathroom. Describe to me what you're thinking, what you're hearing, what you're smelling, what you're seeing. If you got to close your eyes and do it because that helps some people, too. And we just I'm sorry. I It's a long time ago, but we Let's close this book. Okay. So, take a second, but let's go back there. >> I mean, I was home. I felt the the cramping and I just at that point I knew I was in labor. >> Yeah. >> So I had, you know, read that if you put warm water in the bathtub, it helps with the cramping. Honestly, I was panicked. Didn't really know what to do. Got in the bathtub and just, you know, kept like massaging my stomach and then I eventually was probably like an hour, hour and a half gave birth. >> What were you thinking about at the time? You're thinking about, [ __ ] my life's about to change. >> Yeah, I was I was thinking about what do I do? What what you know, how how nobody knows. I'm by myself. What do I do? >> Right. You know, I I think at that point I really didn't know. I I think and then then, you know, I gave birth and the baby's in front of me and it was oh [ __ ] And you know, I put the baby on the floor because I didn't know what to do. Like I was I was afraid I was going to die >> cuz I didn't Well, cuz I didn't know what to expect. >> Yeah. >> Or how to handle or And then I cut the umbilical cord praying that it was where it needed to be cut. Stayed in the bathtub. And then I remember like getting out and feeling like I was going to pass out. >> I mean, that's got to be [ __ ] me. That's a lot, right? >> Yeah. And >> you're sitting in that bathtub, >> the warm water, you just given birth. You're sitting there trying to figure out what to do. You got this new blood everywhere. >> There's blood. >> You got this newborn crying next to you >> moving around >> and you're all by yourself >> and I think I just, you know, stupid, young, didn't know what the hell and I just >> Did you Well, actually, that kind of makes sense. Were you worried the neighbors would hear it? >> Let's go back to that time. >> Yeah, but I I I don't I do not recall the baby crying, >> but I do remember like just I >> If you did, you did. >> Yeah. I >> You know, >> I like I said, I don't remember any crying, but I do remember. And I don't know. >> But you do remember correct. >> And I do remember Okay. Did you think about like before you did it, how like if you kept the baby, how it would change your life? >> I knew I wasn't going to keep it, but after I died, after I did it, then my mind I there was like um on the corner there was like a a child St. Catherine's or some center there and you know as soon as I did it it was like [clears throat] oh my god I should have >> you know just it right you know you it's >> I don't know it's like you do it and then it's like oh [ __ ] I should have >> so you felt regret right >> absolutely >> but at that time when you did it like I mean no you said yourself no one knew >> nobody no I didn't tell anybody not one person now >> and that'd be like a shock to your parents, right? Like, hey, mom, dad, I just had a baby. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> they would have been supportive. I I mean, that's our relationship. I I just >> I mean, do you I I got to ask you, would it have brought shame perhaps? >> Maybe a little bit, but >> Or is it just like I mean, you're >> I mean, more to me probably. I mean, like, you know, >> I mean, you're 25 years old, you're just starting your life. Are you thinking about that? Like, [ __ ] my life's going to be totally different if I had this kid. I I don't honestly I don't even I think I was in denial the whole time. I think I was just in you know young stupid denial. I mean you're 97 and you're starting your life and >> I I you know >> and then so after you press on the baby you feel it stop breathing. The back [laughter] was it paper or plastic? >> I think it was plastic. I think >> cuz there's no plastic burned on that baby. >> I think I took it out. >> You took it out? >> Yeah. >> So, walk me through that. How do you get it from the apartment to your car? >> I had [clears throat] the plastic bag. I like put it in the bag in the towel and put it in my cart. Like carried it out like carried it out like it was groceries. >> You carried it out like it was groceries. >> Yeah. >> Kind of sounds like you thought I mean taking it out like it's trash, you know. >> Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you go out to the car with it like it's groceries. >> Take it to the park. >> You see St. Catherine's right around the corner? >> Yeah. I didn't go that way. >> Okay. You saw that after? Like how long after? >> Like when I was coming home. >> When you were coming home and you said [ __ ] I should have just And you're within eyesight of a police station there, aren't you? >> I think it was around like down the corner. >> Yeah. right up the street. >> So then you drive and did you have in your mind like I'm going to go to Washington Park or were you just >> I think I I I was just I was just driving. >> I was just driving. I didn't know what I was doing. >> And where was the bag of groceries that you brought out at that time? >> In the back seat. >> In the back seat. >> Yeah. >> Behind you or behind the other side? >> Behind me. >> Okay. And then you're just driving around. You got to park and did you >> I don't even know where the matches came from. I think I had them in my car. >> Honestly, I I don't I I I didn't like grab them and take them with me. They were in my I I >> Yeah. At what point did you decide that's the burning was what you were going to do? I started to walk away and then I was afraid that there might be evidence on the towel. >> Um, >> so it wasn't the baby. It was >> You were trying to get rid of the towel. >> The towel or the whatever blanket towel, whatever. >> Why not just take the towel >> stupid young not thinking? Not >> cuz him and I have talked about this a lot. Like I've really tried to get in your head space from that time because I you know I pride myself on being a pretty decent person. >> I just don't think I you know at that point and I was like I was physically ill too. I was kept passing out >> you know because I had no medical attention. I had just had a baby and I think I just >> But I mean you at the time you're alert you know what's going on. Correct. >> So you set the tow >> again with the towel. I had w the baby off again and then I think I was afraid my fingerprints or whatever would be on the towel. >> So I wasn't setting the baby on fire. I was setting >> the towel on fire. Not at that time thinking that >> why not just take the towel off and set it on fire or take it with you >> that. >> Yeah. Not >> cuz those matches we >> not in the right headset, you know, not in the right frame of mind. Not >> fair enough. Cuz we have like we have those matches. They look like the bigger matches you keep in your kitchen, not like the book of matches you get at the store, right? >> Yeah. But we always would do like um bonfires and stuff too. >> Okay. >> So I >> Okay. So when you >> I mean I might even have a box of those in my car now, you know, not like just old >> small [snorts] town old school. Gotcha. So, so when you were saying that you were >> tell I'm old school. Gotcha. >> So, so when you were saying that you were not feeling well, passing out, you were able to make it to and from your car without help like you were you >> there was nobody knew. Nobody to this day. I'm the only person. >> When you were in the park, did you see anybody around? >> There were people, >> but nobody noticed or didn't really know what's going on. >> Yeah. >> And that was at night time. >> Later evening. >> Later evening before midnight, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, how like how far from your car did you go with the baby? Like, did you park right in the road and just jump right out or? >> I I parked I I don't know where I parked. I don't know my way around Washington Park. >> Yeah. >> I just parked somewhere and then just walked. >> When was the last time you thought about this? >> I years ago. I I've completely like >> You put up a wall. >> Put up a wall and blocked it out of my memory. Like it it's one of those things that I was so ashamed of. Yeah. >> So, I don't know. I've completely blocked it out. >> People can do that, you know, >> and I think it's because, you know, I embarrassment and shamed hate myself at that time for it. And then, you know, I have a life. I have two great kids. And I It's just stupid. >> So, I I guess I got two two other things, you know. Have you ever kept Did you keep any trinkets of the baby? Anything like that? >> No. I mean, it was so fast. >> Any >> any photos of you from that time you still have? >> No. >> No. >> Ever like write a diary or like a journal about it? >> No. >> Okay. >> No, I have nothing. I like I said, it was nobody knew. Not one person knew anything from the time I got pregnant till what happened and to this day. So the other part of this is right because you're not the first person to do something like this. It happens a lot more than you think, right? And in preparation for this, I've done a lot of research and one of the things actually, it's going to sound crazy, but I'm going to ask you. So we now have a sample of your DNA, right? We have a search warrant for it as well, just so you're aware. If we insert that into now, you said you don't watch true crime stuff. You don't watch any podcasts. So, I'm going to educate you a little bit here. There's a system called COTUS, >> right? So, a lot of times there will be crimes or remains found, right? And we can't identify the person. And what we'll do is put their DNA in COS >> and eventually, you know, we'll get a hit as soon as their DNA hits the system. Like, you've never been arrested. You never given a sample of DNA or anything, right? >> So my question to you is this. If I put your DNA into COTUS, which I can do, right? We can do that. >> Is that going to hit to any other human remains that have been found anywhere in and it's anywhere in the country? >> No. >> Are you positive? >> Positive. >> This is the only time. >> Yes. You're sure? Cuz now is the time to get ahead of it. >> Positive. Positive. I never >> Okay. And I >> cut and dry, clean, rule following >> Yeah. >> person. >> Yeah. I mean, I I also see it too as, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong, but seeing how having this newborn is going to mess up what you have going on. Is that fair? >> It's fair. It's fair. And I mean, I ashamed embarrassment. Like I said, I was a town babysitter. I love kids. And I I I don't to this day don't know how I did that. >> Yeah. I I I think you just you >> you freak out and >> Yeah. >> I mean it it's >> Yeah. >> You know >> like you look at my phone now even my friends like I I I don't know. I don't I don't have an answer. I don't know. >> It happens. It is it sometimes things get away from people you know you know you because I guarantee that happen to you now it wouldn't play the same way. >> No even my kids you know anything happened with my kids now if they had you know my daughter's not in a relationship my son is he's been with this girl for a couple years and I say to them all the time come to me you know I I just I I I'm think that's why I blocked it out. I >> I mean, were you aware at that time you could bring the child to a hospital? You could bring >> Yes, but I like I said, I think heat of the moment, you just >> you just I I honestly don't have an answer. I think I just panicked and >> Yeah. >> You know, I >> You don't have to explain anything. >> No, I I'm trying to myself, too. >> Yeah. >> All right, Carrie. Well, one of the last things we got to do, police work's all about documentation, right? So, we got to go through um give a formal statement about what happened here. Um everything we just talked about in some substance just boiled down. Um and lock that down um so we can do our jobs here and um then we'll take a second, figure out where we're at and see if you're getting out of here, you staying, whatever's going to happen, right? So, we got to do that real quick. Okay. So 624. Now I got to warn you. Um we have to do this. Some things might not sound flattering, right? But it's the truth. And these are, you know, we have to tell the truth in these. So it's not to offend you. It's not to belittle you or anything like that. We're just writing the truth of what happened here. Okay? So, um, if you want to just run me through it, like when you moved to Albany, just don't go too fast cuz I'm pretty slow at writing. >> Okay. >> So, let's do this here. >> Oh, so I moved to your words, not mine, yours. >> I moved to Albany. I don't know the month in 1997. >> Okay. I moved to Alb in 1997. I don't know the month though. Is that correct? I I don't >> and >> whatever just recalling the event you know >> okay do I have to start with you know I on I don't even know what date you said was September 7th >> no as you remember it sometime whenever you remember if you don't remember the date you don't remember that's one of those things like I was saying it's the truth as you remember you know >> so your words here this is >> all right sometime after moving. >> Okay. >> I gave birth in my bathtub. Okay. after giving birth. I placed my hands >> hands. >> Hey, I I I don't know if it was one or two. >> Okay, just as if you Here's the thing. I don't want you to say something you're not sure of, right? So best >> hand. >> Okay. >> Place my hand >> over the baby nose and mouth. >> Okay. >> I put baby on four. Put the baby on the floor. Okay. I set towel on fire. >> Um I set the towel on fire. Okay. and left. >> Um, and left and went >> and left the park and went home. >> Anything else? I No, I >> I don't. >> No, no, no. That's fine. Uh All right. So, when you placed your hand over the mouth and nose of the baby, was it breathing? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, did your intentional actions cause the death of the baby? >> Yes. You see how the question answer format just kind of helps out in the end >> for a complete account. So, did you know what you were doing would cause a death or cause the baby to die? >> Yes. I mean, I >> I don't know how I don't know how else to answer that. No. >> Yeah. It's the truth. Like I said, these are all just writing down the truth. It's a fact. All this is is a factual account of what you remember from Right. >> It could make someone look great. It could make someone look like [ __ ] But the truth is the truth. >> So where was the towel when you set it on fire? Under baby by baby. >> Under baby or under or by baby? >> Yes. I'm not really sure. Near the baby. I think I just have one last question. Unless you have any. I'll get here. So, my last question is, why did you set the towel on fire while it was on the baby? >> To get rid of DNA or fingerprints or >> to get rid of DNA or fingerprints? >> Oh, yeah. I think I didn't realize I'm saying fingerprints cuz we're talking DNA today. I >> Game changer. Right. Right. >> Right. Wild. >> I didn't even know if there would be any on the towel. I don't >> Yeah. No. Usually you don't get the fingerprints off towels. It's not like CSI. Except now with the DNA that gets everyone. >> But I don't watch any of that. You know what I mean? Like I >> Yeah. >> Um, so moving forward, right? I know you asked, "Am I getting arrested?" You are not being arrested today. Okay. What I can tell you is this is an investigation, right? There's a lot of moving parts to it. And part of that is we might have to talk to you again at some point. Okay. So don't be surprised. I would try and not just pop up at your house randomly cuz you know I don't know who you have there. >> My kids. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or my son and his girlfriend. >> Right. So I I ideally probably wouldn't do that. Okay. It probably be a coord coordinated thing where I'd call you and say, "Hey Carrie, you know, I want to link up with you." But if it's something like real urgent, we might go to the house. We try and use as much discretion as possible not to blow you up. We've talked to people about all kinds of stuff of very sensitive natures and >> it is what it is. We're not trying to put anyone on blast or anything like that, right? >> Um so expect that. That is a possibility, right? Um you know, it's not the sense of like we're going to go screaming from the rooftops. Carrie Mazooka did, you know, this thing in 1997. That's this is all about the truth. >> So it's not going to be on the news like tomorrow. So I have to warn my parents. >> Yeah. No, it's not going to be on the news, right? Um, now moving forward, is it possible that you could be arrested at some point? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Carrie Mazuka was not arrested that morning. 8 days later on September 14th, 2024, Albany police took her into custody and charged her with seconddegree murder, concealment of a human corpse, and tampering with physical evidence. She pleaded not guilty. There was no trial. On February 13th, 2025 in Albany County Court, she pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter and tampering with physical evidence under an agreement that resolved the murder charge without a murder conviction. Before the judge, she acknowledged covering the baby's nose and mouth with her hand and setting fire to the cloth so that her fingerprints would not survive. On April 18th, 2025, she was sentenced to 25 years in state prison, the maximum the plea allowed, followed by 5 years of post-release supervision, with a concurrent sentence for tampering. Investigators later identified the baby's father. He had never known she was pregnant. For 27 years, baby Moses had no name for his mother and no account of his death. Both came from the woman in this room. If you value real police interrogations, critical moments, and the investigative strategies that uncover the truth, subscribe to Evidence Lab Interrogation and turn on notifications so you don't miss the next interrogation. Until next time, stay observant because in the interrogation room, every word matters.