good afternoon this is Daniel here with
Copwatch TV and I am the host of the
live show and what we're going to do
today is we're going to go over and
break down some of the most interesting
and important cases that happened in
policing over the last couple weeks so
just a little bit of a road map of where
we're going today the first couple cases
that we're going to cover involve chief
of police so typically when we talk
about you know controversial officer
involved shooting or you know something
interesting that happens in the world of
policing usually it doesn't include a
chief of police because typically a
chief of police isn't going to be out
there on the street taking calls for
service but there's been a couple
different incidents around the country
that involve a chief of police that
we're going to talk about first and you
know also we're going to talk about this
we're also going to see you know what
what kind of a role does the chief of
police play you know incidents like this
do they hurt morale in a department or
even more importantly to ask is there
something good that can come out of this
uh again if you haven't already please
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people as possible into these live shows
know we typically do this on Friday
around lunchtime usually just after noon
Mountain Time really curious to see
where everybody is watching from today
we got Gary from Indiana how's it going
autistic shill hey how's it going we
have Jason from Georgia and uh we have
Vicky from Massachusetts uh uh Mr shill
is from Winnipeg and uh let's see bears
and cigars uh looks like bears and
cigars has an emblem of the Chicago
Bears so um you know I'm going to be I'm
be real honest I'm pretty biased towards
that because I'm from the south side of
Chicago I'm a huge bear fan my dad had
season tickets to the Bears um my entire
time growing up so um pretty excited
about that bears and cigars we got Bas
from Oregon sheep dog from Pennsylvania
it's good to see everybody and we got
James is from San Jose California it's
good to see everybody in just like we do
every week while I'm going through some
of these cas if you have any interesting
comments or context or even if you
disagree with me on some of these cases
go ahead and put it in the chat one of
my favorite things to do while I'm doing
this show is to kind of go back and
forth and you know answer questions or
you know maybe your opinion is is you
know more educated than mine on
something so I definitely like to hear
it um besides talking about the besides
talking about the uh besides talking
about the two cases that involve police
Chiefs we're going to talk about two
controversial officer involve shootings
one them is a little funny and and I
because no one was injured I I do I I
want to say that it's funny and the last
one is going to be a controversial
officer involved shooting where the
police officers might get charged it's
that kind of a case um Ben Crump is
involved so we'll be interested to to
kind of see um what happens in that case
and also again like my name is Daniel
you can go ahead and follow me
everywhere over at police law news over
on uh Twitter or X Instagram everywhere
um I do content pretty much um
throughout the day on those other
channels all right so the first case
that we're going going talk about today
this happened in Albuquerque New Mexico
and you know like I've said before I
recently retired from the Albuquerque
Police Department so um you know I I do
want to let you know that I know just
about everybody involved in this case
even though there's only one person who
was involved in this case so let me go
ahead and explain what happened so the
chief of police in Albuquerque New
Mexico his name is Harold Medina um he's
been our chief in Albuquerque for
probably about four or five years or so
and um he was going to a press
conference last Saturday um in an area
in an area of the city now um I I I want
to say that this area of the city it's
not it's not a it's not a it's not a
good area of the city it's a pretty high
crime area of the city um when I started
it was called the war zone now that
wasn't the official title of it but a
few years ago well maybe a decade ago or
so the politicians who run the city said
we're no longer going to call this place
the war zone we're going to call it the
International District so you know it
that makes it seem nicer but here's the
problem so so you don't do anything to
really you know stop the crime or to
stop the crime in the area so it's no
longer called The War Zone it's called
The International District again
changing the name really doesn't change
exactly what what happened um what what
what happened there but it does seem
like you know some scenes that we've
seen recently from Palestine and Syria
and Iraq because this is one of the
highest crime places in the city so the
chief of police on a Saturday he was
actually heading up there to do a press
conference with the mayor and what I can
say on behalf of the chief is you know
this is a Saturday morning and here he
is spending his time um doing a press
conference talk about crime in a high
crime area this is absolutely the kind
of thing that we want to see a chief of
police do and that that's what a chief
Medina did while he was on his way up
there he was headed to the headed to the
press conference and um he was with his
his wife was in the car and I'll get to
that in a second that we do have a
policy um that you know police officers
can take um uh spouses wives uh spouses
wives um children you know in in their
police car they they can go ahead and
take them with them you know in the car
you know if it's for a legitimate reason
you know picking up to and from you know
there really isn't any any policy
against that you know one of the reasons
why the Albuquerque Police Department
did that is essentially the best way I
can describe it is to kind of give it a
perk um it's one of the things that
Chief Medina has been uh in favor of
which I think is a good thing um so as
the chief was headed up there with his
wife in the car um They Came Upon um on
on Central Avenue they came which is a
big Street in Albuquerque They Came Upon
you know basically a homeless Camp kind
of on the side of the road that chief
stopped um to kind of see what was going
on with this homeless camp that was
essentially kind of spilling out o over
and into the sidewalk where there are
businesses there and what the chief said
he was going to do is he was going to go
ahead and give a call to the area
commander um give them a call and
basically have some officers come out
there and talk to the individual see if
they needed any help or if they were
committing any crimes um however while
the chief was doing that you know kind
of stopped there on scene um two of the
individuals two of the bums got into a
bum fight like right there um the
chief's wife said hey look these two
guys are are are are you know I I call
it a bum fight I'm guessing that the the
the chief's wife um didn't call it a bum
fight but you know she let the chief
know hey there's two individuals who are
fighting right there it was at that
point that one of the individuals pulled
out a gun and the way that this was was
structured is that essentially the gun
was fa fa pointed in the direction of
the vehicle that the chief and his wife
were in um it was at that point that a
shot was fired as soon as that happened
the chief basically you know the best
way that I can describe it and what I
see in the video evidence he basically
hit the gas he hit the gas he got out of
there he he ran a red light and um as he
ran a red light there was a classic
Mustang vehicle uh the I mean full send
it right there was a classic Mustang
vehicle um that was essentially going
the other way on the street with a green
light the chief ended up smashing into
that car um total the classic Mustang
the driver of that car he did sustain
some pretty serious injuries um so so
that that's what happened in in
Albuquerque New New Mexico um you know
it was a a uh the individual was it was
a critical transport to the hospital my
understanding the individual Wills Will
Survive but he does have some pretty
serious injuries now as you can imagine
when this happened in a he's going to
have to have 10 plus surgeries of the
victim of this you know you can imagine
that when this you can imagine that when
this happens in a city like Albuquerque
that has you know 600,000 people a
thousand person Police Department when
the chief of police is involved in a
crash like this you know there's going
to be a lot of questions that are asked
you know one of them is you know because
Albuquerque police officers have body
cameras you know this the police
department was one of the very first
large police departments that this
Police Department was one of the very
first large police departments um in
order to um have in order to have um uh
body cameras that basically all officers
have to wear um there's a body camera
policy that basically says that you know
anytime you get out of your card for a
law enforcement contact that you have to
turn on your body camera so one of the
first questions is hey do we have any
body camera footage of this and the
answer is no um the chief did not have
his body camera rolling again not in
defense of the chief but just to say if
the chief did something right here
here's what he did right he he he
basically said um that uh he basically
said that you know admitted in public
you know he admitted in public that he
did not have his body camera running and
he essentially referred himself to
Internal Affairs um he turned on the
body camera footage about four minutes
later after the crash happened um so he
did he did refer himself to to Internal
Affairs um you know because his wife was
in the car now there's been all kinds of
different articles in the paper about
hey like let's look at this policy about
about allowing family members to ride in
cars well again it's like just because
the the chief of police was involved in
an incident doesn't mean that it should
be taken so I'm really curious about
people who are police officers or
retired police officers or former
officers on here you know what kind of a
policy do you have do you allow family
members to ride with you in the car if
you're going to and from someplace you
know um I'm really curious about that to
see what other people have to say I
think it's a good policy because you can
use the you can use the take-home car to
pick up kids to and from school um you
know you can drop your you can drop your
your your wife off somewhere if you're
you're on your way to work um you know I
think it's a good policy um so you know
that's that's one of the things that I
want to talk about this you know I guess
my main takeaway from this case because
a lot of times we talk about these cases
but you know there are some you know
pretty important takeaways from a lot of
these cases and and please put in the
chat if you disagree or if you have
something else my biggest Takeaway on
this case is basically like a lot of
times police officers I know that when I
was in the field working you know and I
would be frustrated I would go to
Internal Affairs or I would have
something something happen where a
supervisor didn't like what I did or you
know I I did something and then you know
four months later some supervisor four
or five levels up you know you know
would would would discipline an officer
for that not even me you know was an
officer that I was working with I would
be frustrated and I would say something
something to the effect of you know like
you know well like they should be the
brass the people who run the police
department you know I'd like to see them
take a call for service I would like to
see them how would they they haven't
been in the field for so long I'd be
really interested to see how do they
handle it in a in a dynamic situation
that's dangerous you know how would they
act in a situation like this it's real
easy to sit back here not just on the
show or me now cuz I'm retired me at my
house watching body camera footage
there's a luxury there's a privilege to
being able to sit back and just watch
what other people do but when you're in
the moment and it's stressful how do you
act and you know that's something that a
lot of police officers around the
country want for their supervisors well
now we know now we know now we see this
is what happened when the chief of
police was put in in and again a
situation that he didn't cause he didn't
cause the fight he didn't cause the gun
but it's a situation that he didn't
cause that really through no fault of
his own was a an immediate dangerous
situation and he was just thrown into it
and I think we have to acknowledge and
you know the good here's the good the
good that I hope comes out of this is
that the not just the the the chief of
police in Albuquerque but you know
essentially the people who run this
police department and hopefully other
police leaders around the country just
to have some acknowledgement just kind
of remember hey this is what it's
actually like when you're in the field
when something happen s again to to the
chief's credit on on this one he did say
in the media you know this s he said
something to the effect of that I I I
thought was good he basically said
something to the effect of you know now
I now it's it's been a while since I've
been on patrol now I can remember what
it's like to be that first line officer
to be right there when something happens
um so that's the good that I I hope
comes out of this is that you know a lot
of times humans no matter what your
training is no matter what your
experience is when you have a natural
human response when you are put in a in
a in a stressful situation that you that
is dynamic and you didn't expect to
happen this is how the chief of police
he has over 30 year years of experience
this is how he acted this is how he
responded and that humans no matter if
you're the chief of police or you're one
month out of the police academy you may
not react perfect and when we discipline
officers or we fire officers we should
do it all within that context that you
know sometimes humans make mistakes it
doesn't mean that that they're a bad
person it doesn't mean that they were
trying to harm anyone obviously the
chief of police his intention I always
talk about intention on the show and
when I write articles on my substack I
always talk about how important that you
know I admittedly use someone's intent I
maybe put too much weight on that what
someone was trying to do you know I I
almost I almost um I almost put too much
emphasis on intent um de Porter just
gave us a Super Chat hey there love your
channel uh the first video I watched of
yours was the one of the New Mexico cop
driving drunk and killed two people very
sad deported that was aad case um we do
try to cover um cases like that all over
not just in new new New Mexico but also
all across the country um dter really
appreciate uh the uh support um thank
you so much for that Super Chat really
really appreciate it um Steve Ladner
says where was the good officer that we
always hear about well Stevie you don't
really hear about it because it happen
so much um but one thing Dorter um so
the individual in the case that we're
talking about just to give you an update
um the in that officer on that case he
was actually sentenced to 20 years in
prison um for what he did um on that
particular crash um and uh uh you know I
I I I I should just say that um uh law
enforcement um uh was taken and removed
from the okay and um okay so so you know
I I not everyone is going to act perfect
in a situation that is a dynamic and
stressful situation so if anything comes
out of this like I said I hope that the
individual that I'm talking about intent
let me let me finish that up real quick
so so it's like I always look at intent
so what was the intent of the chief the
intent of the chief was to attend a
press conference at 10:00 in the morning
in order to highlight a dangerous area
of the city that's a good thing and then
on his way there he wasn't just a lazy
Chief right he on his way there he saw a
problem that he was going to try to
address there's no ill intent there
anything that goes in the category that
goes into the bucket of hey he's
actually trying to do something to make
the city a little bit better he saw a
problem and he was going to contact
someone to do it now yes of course
driving away kind of in a reckless
manner injuring someone that's not good
but again the chief in this situation
didn't have bad intent and all that we
can hope for is that you know if he does
go through the internal affairs process
that essentially he will get any
discipline than any other officer would
and then to kind of keep in mind that
you know officers aren't perfect and as
long as they have good intent and it
it's a it's a there's some kind of
mistake that happens in the moment just
to keep that in mind um when it comes to
not just watching body camera videos but
for people who are actually leading
police departments to kind of keep that
in mind that you know this job isn't as
easy as it might seem watching body
camera video from the safety of your own
house okay so that was the first uh the
first uh uh that was the first um uh
case involving a a chief of police I
want to talk about and there was another
one it's actually body camera footage um
that I found actually found the I saw
the footage yesterday I put up a little
video of it uh on my Instagram before I
got here today it was at to about
200,000 views so it is something that so
people do think that this case is pretty
interesting and I'm not the only one
who's getting a whole bunch of views on
on this particular case but but but
essentially this happened in Bradley
Beach New Jersey now I've never been to
New Jersey and doing some research it
sounds like this is kind of the area of
like the Jersey Shore um so you know
basically um there was a a sergeant his
name is Sergeant William major and he
was on a call for service it was
essentially a crash it was a
multi-vehicle crash that involved
injuries and there was also one of the
individuals was a possibly a drunk
driver so he was a sergeant on scene
basically trying to manage a multi crash
and also a drunk driver so you know he
had officers doing those things but as
the supervisor on scene you know you
want to make sure that those things are
being done so again yes and his car was
actually helping to block um one of the
officers who is doing a DWI
investigation you know basically so all
that stuff could be done safely so while
this was happening an individual walks
up to him and at first unless you were
local there you really wouldn't know who
this individual was um he was you know a
50s something year old white guy who was
not dressed in any kind of a uniform um
he was in street clothes essentially and
from the first word out of his mouth you
could tell that he was drunk I mean me
watching the body camera video it's very
obvious that this person is intoxicated
and you know pretty quickly into the
into the body camera footage you know uh
sergeant major refers to this guy's
Chief and this ends up being the chief
of police so again now I think police
Chiefs have it in their contract that
essentially they work 247 meaning like
if something happens at 2:00 in the
morning they may have to go out so I'm
going to use the words off the clock not
because and and I get the argument on
the other side can be well a chief again
a chief is Never Off the Clock they're
compensated usually pretty well but
again they may have to respond all the
time but since this guy was you know it
appears to be intoxicated I'm going to
say that he was off the clock he wasn't
doing a police related activity before
this right so he basically walks up to
the sergeant you know drunk out of his
mind and he starts giving the sergeant
about what kind of a jacket he's
wearing so the sergeant is wearing some
kind of a jacket and because this is
body camera footage from the sergeant
you really can't tell exactly like
what's on the back of the jacket but you
know the chief basically says that like
you know it says police or or something
on on the back of his jacket and it's
faded so the chief is giving him
about you know wearing that jacket and
the sergeant goes hey you know Chief we
can go ahead and talk about this later
like I'm trying to trying to work here
and the chief just won't let it go he
keeps bugging him he walks up to him
multiple times and finally the sergeant
just says Like Chief we can I don't have
time to talk about the jacket you know
I'm dealing with a crash with injuries
and a drunk driving investigation
like we can talk about this later which
you know is a pretty reasonable thing
even though there's a chain of command
and the chief is in charge you know it's
it's a pretty reasonable thing for the
sergeant to say and the sergeant you
know he's actually at the beginning of
the video it seems like he's trying to
cover for the chief because the chief is
saying things obviously drunk that are
obviously idiotic and the sergeant kind
of lowers his voice he's kind of like
yeah oh oh okay chief oh okay chief we
can go ahead and talk about this later
so it seemed like he was trying to
deescalate the situation and work pretty
much at the same time um and uh and what
uh and and and what happened is that at
some point the chief wouldn't let it go
so Not only was he kind of yelling at
the sergeant from the sidewalk he walks
up to the sergeant and he he walks up to
the sergeant and he grabbed him he
grabbed him by the arm um and and as
soon as he did that the sergeant
responded pretty much immediately he
pushed the chief back he said don't
touch me and he pushed him onto the hood
of the car the chief starts yelling so
the kind sergeant and the Chief stands
up and the sergeant kind of pushes him
and you know anyone who's watched this
video I mean to me there is no question
that the sergeant was in the right on
this because right after that the chief
tells the other officers on scene he
points the sergeant he goes in his drunk
voice he goes take him in take him in
basically trying to get the officers to
arrest the sergeant for what just
happened obviously the officers didn't
try to arrest the sergeant but it's um
uh yeah it's uh it's it's it's pretty
it's pretty it's pretty interesting it
goes on for a while and then after that
the the chief keeps saying the keep
Chiefs the keep Chief the chief keeps
saying things like I I I I love you and
and all that all that kind of stuff like
I love you you know you're your sergeant
here like you know you could tell that
their relationship that maybe there's
something there but it's like it's weird
for the chief to act like this but then
like drunkenly say that he he loves the
guy and he keeps trying to pull the
sergeant off the scene he's like you
have to meet me back at back at my
office you are suspended right now you
have to meet me back at the office and
the sergeant is was like well like if
you want me if I'm suspended I'm going
to go home I'm not going back to the
office right now so I don't think the
sergeant did anything wrong I mean in
fact I think the sergeant acted you know
pretty pretty good here um uh referen
the um uh reference the uh uh uh
situation um you know that was dealing
with I should say that the sergeant was
also a k9 Sergeant so you know it's
reasonable to ask does the K9 get uh
suspended too um but you know what ended
up happening so here's was basically the
Fallout from that so you know both
individuals were put on leave while
there was some kind of Investigation the
sergeant actually went back to work
pretty quickly we which is a good thing
um which is a good thing um and Sergeant
went back to work the chief who makes I
think
$175,000 a year he was put on
administrative leave you know as far as
I know he's still on administrative
leave they have an acting Chief in there
so it looks like you know when this
actually got to investigators or people
to actually look at this you know it's
pretty it's uh pretty um it's pretty
interesting to see that um
uh it's pretty interesting to see that
you know I think this went the right way
that the chief was clearly in the wrong
the Sergeant's back at work and looks
like the chief is going to lose his job
or he should lose his job because this
isn't the kind of thing that a chief of
police should be doing one he's he's
intoxicated he shouldn't be doing
anything law enforcement related but
even if he was sober can you imagine
working for a chief here you are on a
crash trying to manage a crash make sure
everybody's save and Mak sure officers
do a d uh driveing while intoxicated
investigation to do all that and you
have a chief of police yelling at at you
about the wrong jacket obviously if
you're wearing the wrong jacket you
could have a wardrobe conversation later
this isn't the time or place no
reasonable supervisor or chief of police
would have a conversation about that
right then um so uh cjun Randy says once
he was told he was suspended he should
have went immediately home I agree cjun
Randy he should have said um it seemed
like the sergeant was like well I still
want to at least finish up this call
because like my car is literally
blocking where there you know where
there's a crash car so I'm kind of
helping so it seemed like he kind of um
uh you know wanted to at least finish
that call and do the right thing but
kjun and Randy I agree and again it's
like also the chief is drunk so you know
like what's you know what what happens
then and you know because the chief put
his hands on him is there going to be
some kind of a criminal investigation so
again the idea that the sergeant is
going to stay on scene like I get it but
um so yeah it's a it's a an interesting
conversation Steve Ladner says the chief
will be rewarded with retirement anyone
else would be fired and in jail yeah
Steve so looks like he does he's not
going to be the chief anymore so he's
lost his job but Steve most of the time
when you reach the level of chief of
police you're already eligible to retire
um so you know so I you know the the 20
years I was with uh hey Ethan how's it
going the 20 years I was with the the
the police department you know I think I
had like four or five different Chiefs
of police um they were all retired you
know had they all had retired and had
come back to work so again so say Steve
lad say he's rewarded with retirement
well again it's likely this Chief was
already you know El ible to retire so
yes he get he get he gets to retire
that's what happens anyone else would be
fired and in jail I I don't I don't know
about that Steve I mean if you work for
Walmart and um if you put your hand on a
on a police officer is Walmart going to
fire you I'm I'm going to say probably
not um and I'm not trying to defend this
Chief uh this Chief Steve because I
think the chief was in the wrong but
again the chief lost his job over this
when you know in almost any other
industry if you acted like this you
wouldn't lose your job I do think the
chief should lose his job because I
think that police offer officers
especially a chief of police should be
held to a higher standard but again in
most injuries if you worked in the tech
sector and this happened um yeah you
couldn't um do that um Steve lader can
you draw a full retirement if you get
fired oh Steve that's such a good
question so it's gonna DET it's gonna
vary state by state but Steve in general
yes yes you can um typically you can so
the way that retirement works again in
most places someone correct me if I'm
wrong is that the way that you get to
retirement is you have to work so many
years so you have to worked so many
years in some places like so like the
the place that I worked I had to work 20
years if you work 20 years then you get
a pension right so let's say an officer
uh in other places like Indiana it's
this weird math problem cops are
terrible at math so this makes no sense
in some places like Indiana it's some
kind of a math problem it's like you
have to work this many years and you
have to be this old this many years old
and it has to equal 75 and it's like
it's a math problem to determine when
you can retire um so so Steve I guess
I'm going with this let's say you know
it's it's a 20-year retirement let's say
you're the chief of police and you've
worked 22 years and you mess up like
this Chief did um yeah I mean you've
already met what's required to um uh to
to retire so just because you get fired
or you uh resign under bad circumstances
you typically don't lose your pension
the way that you would lose a pension
Steve and again I'm going to say
typically in Most states is if you do
something Criminal on duty um so uh do
you guys remember the case I'm not going
to remember his name off top of my head
um but uh the guy the police sergeant in
Bowling Brook Illinois uh Drew um uh you
guys help me out Drew uh I can't
remember Sergeant Bowling Brook Illinois
um he killed um he was convicted of
killing his ex-wife and then uh Peterson
Drew Peterson in Illinois retired police
sergeant from Bowling there we go
retired police sergeant from Bowling
Brook Illinois he was convicted of
killing his second wife and then his
third wife actually went missing and and
they never found her um he's in prison
for that so while he was while Drew
Peterson was in prison they actually
because he had earned his time to retire
he they actually went back and they were
able to um basically um you know through
the state of Illinois um they were able
to basically pull his pension or get his
pension taken away because he committed
you know crimes on duty so that's
typically the way it goes otherwise um
as long as you meet whatever time there
um to get a pension you typically get a
pension hope I answered your questions
Steve um all right let's see if we have
any other questions um let's see James
eeko won't be the first time a chief got
into with one of his officers I agree
James it's not we've showed other videos
like this before but uh this was
interesting mostly because of the
intoxication level of the sergeant and
um yeah but we have played uh we have
played videos like this before JS says
the higher they go up the more they
cover up does this include stitching
people up um uh yeah so I mean this is
just one of those things um you know
with with body camera you know any of
the the corruption stuff like that
hopefully the the the the more we have
body cameras hopefully the less of that
kind of stuff we have and not being able
to to cover things up um but uh so now
I'm going to talk about a couple officer
involved shootings you know they're both
they're both I I guess I would say I
always use the word controversial but
the first one really isn't controversial
um it's kind of funny the second one is
controversial and I know we're going to
have a difference of opinion about
whether or not the police officers
should be charged with crimes but but
this one I'm going to talk about it's
basically the acorn case if you haven't
seen the memes on the acorn case like
I'm kind of glad this happened just for
the memes like this this thing
is is absolutely ridiculous um there's a
couple people that I I I really like um
I I I follow them both um uh Drew Breezy
um he's over at what say drew over on
Instagram he's a retired lieutenant from
Florida and he runs the com Center
podcast another individual I follow um
he's from Columbus Ohio uh thoughts of a
police officer with officer Ben and um
uh you know they they they've gotten to
a pretty heated spat over this um over
this case on the last couple days um and
I like them both so I'd like to see them
reconcile um but you know so I can see
even people who are pro police in the
police World kind of you know have some
disagreement over this or at least how
this should be covered you know I'm I'm
I'm basically taking it that like you
know sometimes funny things happen in
policing even if it's over a shooting as
long as no one gets injured it's okay to
laugh about it it just is you know a lot
of this job in being a police officer is
having a dark sense of humor and when
someone does something something stupid
you should be able to say it this guy
did something stupid this happened in
akaloa akaloa County Florida um and and
essentially you know basically what
happened is the officer mistook I'll get
into the details here in a second but
the officer mistook oh hey Britney how's
it going um the officer mistook uh the
officer mistook an acorn falling on him
for gunshots and he ended up firing an
entire magazine into his own patrol car
I know that sounds crazy I'm going to
explain what happened because if you
just hear it there it sounds crazy now
I'm going to try to I'm going to try to
explain it it's still going to sound
crazy but maybe it'll make a little bit
more sense and again the memes on this
um are keeping this thing alive um which
it absolutely should because this is
this is this is this is absolutely
hilarious so basically what happened is
um here here in uh so this officer I
think he had 13 months on um he had 13
months on um so basically you they
usually do a year um he he basically uh
you do a year of probation um and then
and then you're you're basically off off
probation so this guy had this guy had
13 months on um his his history is that
um he went to West Point so he was in
the military um I think he was deployed
to Afghanistan twice but he wasn't in
the combat zone um so he wasn't in any
kind of a combat zone but he was
deployed twice so he does have you know
at least some military training and
Military experience he had 13 months um
on the police department and um uh and
he um uh so uh I'm being told that he's
what a military guys call a fobit um I
don't know what that is but I'm not a
military guy but that's what I am being
told um uh I'm being told uh uh and
James S says yeah apparently he got a
squirrel he did uh uh forward operating
base person who doesn't go into combat
okay uh so so so basically what um what
happened was is they arrested an
individual for stealing a car so they
have this guy in custody for stealing a
car um he's in handcuffs he's in the
back seat of the police vehicle and
while they're doing the investigation
somehow they get some information either
it's it's someone on scene or it's it's
an investigator somehow they find that
you know basically right before they
arrested this guy that he had posted a
picture or shared a picture of him in
the car holding a gun basically pointing
a gun in the car so now police officer
are thinking okay so we have this guy
who's under arrest for stealing a car
and you know here's a picture of him
literally just a few minutes before
holding a gun in that car and when they
searched him they couldn't find a gun so
now police officer thinking okay so so
there's probably a gun somewhere and
they search the car the gun's done the
car so now the officers are kind of
thinking okay did he conceal the gun on
him now I know this sounds silly I get
it but it actually has happened before
it absolutely has happened before where
someone was able to hide a gun conceal a
gun a police officer just didn't do a
good enough job searching the individual
and that the individual is actually able
to shoot the the police officer so again
it doesn't happen very often thankfully
but it's not impossible it actually does
happen before I retired from the
Albuquerque Police Department I was
teaching a class called AEL active
bystanders ship in law enforcement in
that class we actually cover one of
those cases that actually happened this
way that an officer didn't do a search
um as good as they should the guy went
into another person's car that officer
didn't do a search even though they were
supposed to and as the officer who was a
father of three kids as he was driving
he didn't have anything to do didn't
have anything to do with with this guy's
arrest he was just the transport officer
as he was transporting uh the officer
transporting the guy to Jail the guy was
able to um take out a concealed gun that
he had even though he was in handcuffs
he actually shot the officer and killed
him um very sad so again not doesn't
happen often very rare but still
possible so so let's go with this in a
situation like this like is it
reasonable that you would search this
guy a second time just to make sure
knowing that there's some evidence that
he had a gun yes that's not unreasonable
and yes of course I'm going to say just
like everybody is is probably shouting
at that shouting at their screen right
now well it's their responsibility to
search him really good before you put
him inside the car I agree with you 100%
so that's kind of the mindset of the
police officer is basically he's walking
back to his car thinking this guy may
have a concealed gun on him that's what
he's thinking as he's walking as he's
walking back to the car um you spelled
Karma wrong there right Camera Action as
he's walking back to the car um he
basically acorns from a tree above
acorns are start coming down from the
tree above one of the acorns hits the
car one of the acorns hits the officer's
leg and for whatever reason he doesn't
say hey um uh there's acorns falling on
me that's kind of funny for whatever
reason he starts to think that that the
person in the backseat of the car is
shooting at him and he acts in pretty
much the most ridiculous way possible he
basically he hits the ground he starts
rolling around he says shots fired and
then he starts yelling I've been hits
and you he basically creates distance as
he's doing these crazy bar barrel rolls
um he has medical blue gloves on for
some reason I don't know what kind of a
search he was thinking he was going to
do on this guy um but you know basically
what he does is he starts firing rounds
at the back of his patrol car um he
empties an entire magazine he reloads
and he starts firing more there's a
sergeant who's you know basically on the
other side of the car his grouping was
all over the place a terrible shot
placement which is probably a good thing
for the guy in the back of the car right
um so the the there there was a a female
sergeant on scene who sees this and you
know as he's yelling shots fired she
starts shooting into the car too you
know I'm going to be honest I actually
have more of a problem with with her
actions than I do with his actions um
because in order for police officers to
legally lawfully within policy fire
their weapons they can't just shoot
their guns and fire their weapons uh
because that guy is doing it or because
that officer is doing it no you have to
have you have to be able to articulate
an independent threat so here's my
question to that female sergeant what
was the independent threat that you saw
what was the independent threat that you
saw that you end up firing your weapon
none basically she was shooting because
he was shooting um the good news is that
somehow um the guy in the back seat was
not hit he was not injured that that is
a good thing that is 100% good thing um
so the he was he was not injured um
obviously dur during the there's going
to be an internal investigation on this
for a situation like this I would expect
I was expect a uh police officer to I
was I would expect a police officer to
you know for sure be um I would expect a
police officer uh to sure for sure be
terminated you know fired um and maybe
even charged with a crime um yeah I I
would I would you know maybe even be
charged with a crime I would I would
think that um but however that's uh
that's not what that's not that's not
what happened um the officer um uh the
officer basically um during the internal
investigation um he the officer resigned
um during the internal investigation so
he resigned um obviously he's not going
to be picked up as a police officer
anymore but he's also not going to be
criminally charged um you know I could I
could see a situation where the officer
would be criminally charged and you know
essentially what we what what we would
have to do in a situation like that is
you know the officer would basically
have to say you know why he reason
reasonably thought it was a threat and I
don't see how you get there because
again it was an acorn so I'm not saying
this officer was a bad guy but he made a
mistake and it's an it's absolutely
ridiculous so the memes of you know cop
shooting at acorns is a is a hilarious
Meme and um uh yeah so and it's because
no one was injured that we can go ahead
and laugh about it Steve lader says fast
food workers are held to higher
standards I don't know Steve I mean this
guy uh so Steve I would I obviously what
you said is silly um but you know I
would you know if this guy kept his job
I'd be like ah yeah you got me St but no
I mean he resigned and uh and uh again
um if uh uh he he resigned and um you
know uh if if if that wouldn't have been
the case um I would I would see it um uh
yeah I mean there's always an argument
that people who do hair have more um
professional hours than Police Academy
I've debunked that multiple times that
isn't true um and uh so yeah that's
that's that case it's absolutely it's
absolutely a a ridiculous thing and uh
uh you know the the the dispute between
um you know thoughts of a police officer
and then then my friend Drew Breezy um
over at what say drew their dispute was
basically about you know thoughts of a
police officer officer Ben you know he
was basically joking about it sharing
the memes and the other side Drew Breezy
was saying that you know we should we
should take this a little more seriously
um I love them both but no when cops do
ridiculous I think it's impossible
I think it's important to talk about how
ridiculous it is um uh yeah and again to
me the most concerning thing is that the
unene also began to fire her weapon um
because that was absolutely insane
doesn't doesn't doesn't make any sense
um all right so this last officer uh
involved shooting that we're we're going
to go ahead and talk about this is a
controversial officer involved shooting
Ben Crump is actually involved
representing of the woman who was shot
by police officers um so this isn't a
funny case this is this is a Ser this is
a serious case um so you know we're
going to go ahead and talk about it and
I'm really curious to see um what
anybody else uh what anybody else thinks
about it um one more comment from Steve
cupman San Antonio beat up a handcuff
pregnant woman and was rehired and
rewarded with back pay fast food workers
are held to higher standards uh yeah I
don't know Steve U you put the name of
the person in there um uh so just really
quick on Steve's comment so Steve
basically says that a th Antonio cop did
something wrong uh he was rehired and
rewarded with backpay let me just break
that down a little bit so when he said
rewarded um or when he says rehired to
me that seems like the police department
fired the indivi individual so it seems
like you know whatever the officer did
in that situ Steve C if I'm wrong
whatever the officer did he was fired by
the city which again if a cop messes up
I think we all agree they should be
fired right or does something you know
criminal or something egregious they
should be fired so we have um uh so we
have the individual who was uh so we
have the individual the officer was
fired and then you know when it says
rehired to me that seems like that was
per the order of a court so my guess is
he was fired then he challenged the
termination basically a court told um
told told the police department that
they had to rehire him with with with
with back pay so again if we're going to
put you know we're going to so who would
be to blame on that would it be to blame
the police department who fired the guy
and was forced to rehire him no I guess
we have to blame the the the court
system which again you know there's not
a lot we can do about the court system
so um the fact that the court system you
know made the police department hire and
back to me makes it seem like it's not
as simple as you put in there that
that's just my opinion uh rights Camera
Action good to see you LPD shot a man
holding a plastic fork yes rights Camera
Action that was absolutely a legal
lawful reasonable officer involved
shooting I covered it um over on my
channel um police law news um over on
Twitter and Instagram I do think that
was a legal and reasonable officer
involved shooting and um uh I can cover
that case next week um I can cover that
case next week wres camera action and
explain why and we can go back and forth
and have a good time with it um so this
case basically happened on February 3rd
in Harris County Texas um you know
basically police officers fired at a
woman who was was walking towards the
door with a gun um so you know a lot of
these a lot of these different cases
have questions so the question that I'm
going to ask which is I think is the
important question to ask is that here's
whether or not this shooting was within
policy or within the law you know
objectively reasonable we have to ask
was it reasonable for the officers to
believe that the woman approaching the
door with a gun was an armed burglar so
did cops have a reason to think that
this woman was was a burglar um and you
know how long should cops wait to fire
their guns let me tell you what happen
so police officers or deputies I guess
in Harris County Texas were dispatched
to a call at an apartment complex um yes
Steve Ben crumps on this case um so uh
police officers were dispatched to a
call in an apartment complex I think the
call was for residential burglary so
police officers go to the call and they
talked to the person and it turns out
whatever they were there for didn't
really happen so there wasn't a burglary
or wasn't a Tres but whatever it was it
ended up being nothing but cops are
talking to you know one of the witnesses
and they said hey you know what happened
uh up above me I think there was
actually another burglary that happened
and cops are kind of like well hang on
what and they're like yeah we heard like
um like like a glass break and crash and
we heard someone walking around up there
and yeah there's a lady who lives up
there but like we think her house is
like being burglarized you know a couple
minutes ago and the cops are like all
right okay let's let's deal with it
right so so the police do basically what
they're supposed to do they go ahead and
investigate it and when it comes to
tactics I'm going to disagree on what
they did and I'll tell you about that at
the end let me tell you what they did do
so basically it was two female police
officers and they walk up the stairs to
the apartment and you know so when
you're on a call for service a lot of
times what people tell you isn't exactly
what's correct you know because again
people aren't trained Witnesses and you
know a lot of times they only have hear
something so a lot of times when
Witnesses tell a police officer
something it's not always accurate it's
not correct or there's some context
that's missing so a lot of times when a
police officer hears something like that
the first thing they do is they kind of
go and check it out and they go well
does the evidence match what I'm being
told and if so okay then maybe we have
something here I that's a reasonable
thing for a police officer to do so the
officers walk up the stairs and they see
a couple things they see that there's a
screen that had been basically moved
away from the M the window was um
resting on the other side of the wall
and they see Glass Broken they see a
broken window with glass broken okay so
they have a witness who again is you
independent witness and shouldn't have
any skin in the game to try to get
anybody in trouble you have a witness
again who lives underneath who lives you
know right below they should have an
idea of what's happening in their
building so you have a witness who says
hey there was a burglary then the cops
go upstairs and they see evidence of a
burglary right so now they're both the
cops are both thinking okay we probably
have a residential burglary now it's at
this point I would have done something a
little bit different than the police
officers did I'll tell you that in a
second but here's what they did do they
basically walked up and um you know one
of the officers um was pretty much
holding on the window CU they they could
look through the window and see what was
going on inside and another officer
basically walked up right to the front
door knocked rang the doorbell knocked
and yelled Sheriff's Department
Sheriff's Department um so you know
basically to let them know what was what
was going on and um basically what
happened is there was a woman Inside and
um the woman uh Miss pouncy ebony pouncy
is her name and Miss pouncy was inside
the residence um she grabs a firearm and
she starts approaching the front door
with a a firearm in her hand okay and
it's as she's approaching the front door
it's at that point that both police
officers basically unload on her um they
go through a couple different magazines
and they shoot her a bunch of times I
believe she shot five different times
somehow and thankfully Miss pouncy
survives now let's break this down a
little bit so so who is Miss pouncy so
let's talk about it from her perspective
so miss pouncy is a friend of the woman
who owns the apartment well miss pouncy
essentially got permission to go over to
the friend's apartment but the friend
didn't have a key so the friend told
Miss pouncy hey you can go ahead and
break the window to get in so from her
perspective from her point of view she's
not doing anything wrong she's not doing
anything illegal she had permission to
be there and the friend who owned the
apartment or you know was the was the
tenant of the apartment gave her
permission to break the window in order
to get in so miss pouncy from her
perspective she didn't do anything wrong
she's a normal person living her day and
she had total permission to do what she
did now look let's look at it from the
point of police officers police officers
weren't just you know run around
harassing people or saying hey let's
let's ring doorbells and and screw with
people no police officers were
specifically told hey I think there was
a residential burglary up there and then
they walk up and they see evidence that
anybody would think is evidence of a
residential burglary so as Miss and
again they didn't just weren't just like
creeping around the apartment or the
house like a Steven Perkins case right
what they did is they knocked on the
door and they said Sheriff's Department
we know this because it's on body camera
video I love body camera video because
otherwise the Ben Crump would would lie
and say the police officers never
identified themselves like they lied
about that in the bana Taylor case right
but we know that the police officers
knocked and said sh yelled Sheriff's
Department okay so it's now police
officers at this point they think that
they have a residential burglary they've
announce themselves loudly as police
right there there's no question this is
the the reality the objective reality of
what happened now you have someone
inside the residence is it re now here's
my question is it reasonable for the
police officers to believe that Miss
pouncy is a residential burglary which
which is a felon that she had just
committed the felony of residential
burglary like is it reasonable for the
police officers to think that well yeah
it is it doesn't mean that miss pouncy
is guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt but
in the moment when you only have like
one or two seconds to say hey this
person in there like what do I think
they are anybody would think that yeah
that's a it's a reasonable thing so now
you have someone who you reasonably
believe just committed a felony you've
already announced police now they're
walking to the door with a gun what are
you thinking as a police officer you're
thinking this person just committed a
felony they know that I'm a police
officer cuz I yelled sheriff's
department and they're approaching the
door with a gun so that's what the
police officers were thinking in the
moment and I'm telling you yes they
weren't right but I'm telling you that
is not an unreasonable thing for those
officers to think so as Miss poun is
about to open the door the police
officer shoot her again it ends up being
that you know that she was the friend
and obviously it's a tragedy because we
didn't want this to happen so earlier I
said I would have done something
different what would I have done
different not just what I have done
different let's talk about best
practices what should police departments
what should training acmy what should
instructors what should police leaders
what should we tell police officers to
do in a situation like this and I said
this a lot of times police officers are
really good at following instructions
what I mean is you write a policy and
then you train them how to do something
most of the time they're going to do
that not all the time but most of the
time they're going to do that so what so
let's talk about this and please put in
the comments if you disagree with me or
if you have any any idea um or if you
have any idea what police officer should
do so here's my opinion here here's my
opinion of uh you know what the officer
should have done so I think that they
they they took the report or they had
the information that there was a
burglary and they went up and they
looked around and they checked I think
that was the right thing to do right now
once they checked and they saw the
evidence of the burglary they saw the
screen move they saw the broken glass to
me at that point that's pretty good
evidence that they have a residential
burglary now there could be someone
inside my guess is that the SOP the
training I don't know any police
training that would say hey if you think
you have a felon inside of a place like
a residential Burgery you just knock on
the door and ring the doorbell and yell
police that's probably not the right
thing to do what I would do is I would
have and I think what what you know
basically policy and tactic should be is
the officer should have got in the radio
and say hey hey you know what we're
actually we think we have a residential
burglary here's what the apartment
number is going to be can we get two
officers on the south side of the house
one officer on the north side of the
house can we get a sergeant and a CIT if
that stuff is available you set up a
perimeter around the house you go back
from a place of cover right so either
either downstairs or behind and you try
to go to a place of cover and that's how
you try to make contact and you give
very clear instructions this is the
Harris County Sheriff's Department
apartment 2B can we please have all
occupants exit with your hands up and
empty you know and you try to go about
that while you're trying to give
commands you also have dispatch try to
reach the owner of the house house right
because police officers have
unbelievable databases right or you try
to get a hold of the apartment manager
police officers basically police
officers basically yeah rights Camera
Action yes surround the place police
officers basically have access to
managers of Apartments like their
personal cell phone numbers a lot of the
times or they could go ahead and give a
call you know maybe take it would take
five or so you have the place surrounded
and you have one officer doing some
research right so you have one officer
do doing some research that says hey now
we're going to contact the apartment
manager then you go ahead and you get
the and again no cops are cops aren't
paid like by they're paid by the hour
but it's like there's no hurry there's
no hurry there's no reason to rush this
right um there's no reason to rush any
of this take your time especially if
it's a possible felony so you contact
the apartment manager then you contact
the owner of the house hey I'm officer
I'm officer Daniel with the Harris
County Sheriff's department and Hey
listen looks like someone knocked out
the window of your house just making
sure is anybody supposed to be there was
it like that when you left then you
would have had the woman say oh yeah you
know actually my friend Ebony she's in
the house I told her to do that there's
no there is no burglary right so it's
like these are the kinds of things that
police officers can do on the front and
and here's what I'm going to say is that
really the fix to this if we want police
officers to be better because as I've
said before the goal of this the goal of
this show the goal of my contact the
goal of the goal of the articles I write
the goal is basically to make it so
there's less so there's less so there's
less violence between citizens and
police and a lot of times we have to
really examine policies and training and
practice of police and then on the other
side we also have to you know a lot of
times if you know people just didn't
resist arrest and fight with cops that
this would all be avoided but this is a
situation where I honestly think that a
different policy a different training
different tactics could have avoided
this um so so you know in a situation
like this once here's what I'm going to
say is like you know once all of the the
way to fix this it's all in the front
end it's all in how police respond to an
incident like this on the front end the
steps that I said about making sure the
place is surrounded doing a little bit
of research and using a real-time crime
Center or or the police databases to try
to get some more information before you
just go knock on the door that's where
the fix to this is because here's the
thing once you're in a situation where
you honestly believe that there's a
felon inside the building and that felon
is walking towards the door with the gun
expecting police officers to be perfect
in that moment that is not the fix to
this you know we're always going to have
trouble if that's where we get to um
that you know because then you have to
ask yourself okay you're police officer
who honestly believes that someone who
committed a felony is approaching the
door with a gun the question is how long
do you wait do you wait until the person
has the door open do you wait until the
person till the gun is pointed at you do
you wait until your partner is dead like
that that's a that's a tough that's a
tough question to ask and it's for that
reason I do think that this shooting was
you know objectively reasonable it was
within the law um I I I do think that
the shooting was within the law because
again if if the police officers had a
reasonable belief that she was a
residential burglary burglar which they
do um and she's walking towards the door
with a gun um so now they have someone
who they honestly believe and reasonably
like like an independent reasonable
person in that situation would say yeah
that's uh okay someone who committed a
felony is now approaching the door with
a gun you know that's the question how
long do you wait if there is training or
policy or law that tells a police
officer exactly when they could fire
please put it in the chat I'm real
curious because I'm telling you there
isn't it the standard is what is
objectively reasonable Can the police
officers articulate an imminent threat
and in this case they did and the reason
why I'm saying that and harping on this
because I want situations like this to
happen less that's the goal but the fix
again is not when the police officer is
they already at the door and Miss pouncy
is coming to the door with a gun and
police officers have 34s of a second to
make a decision if you think that
situations like this like are going to
be fixed if you wait until then it's not
anything the officers can do it's all on
the front end to slow down to involve a
sergeant to use your resources and it's
all of this deescalation and resources
on the front and that's how we fix this
rights camera action it's called backing
up I agree 100% um so yeah let me see
the some of the comments uh here uh
let's see um Steve says using your logic
if a nosy neighbor is sitting in one of
his homes cleaning his guns you can call
police to take him out um uh yeah I
don't know Steve I mean again like the
the police officers in a situation like
this had evidence of a residential
burglary um again I think that that's
objective you know that's not that's not
me being biased anyone in that situation
would think it's a residential burglary
my issue with what the officers did is
that once they had very good evidence of
a residential burglary is that they
didn't do anything else they didn't back
up they didn't set a perimeter they
didn't try to get a hold of the owner
they didn't they didn't contact a
sergeant they didn't do all of these
other things on the front end and here's
the thing what if this and I don't know
anything about Harris County Texas I
know Harris County I think is near in
the Houston area so my guess is a pretty
big sheriff's department but I don't
know how big it is you know what if
those deputies the thing I'm very simple
things I'm saying now what if they never
had that training what if they never had
that education what if you know this
wasn't the the standard operating
procedure what if the way they did it is
exactly what they've been told to do
well then it's really difficult to blame
the police officers and we have to blame
the politicians who run the police
department and you are both supposed to
be the ones who are in charge of putting
training like this together um it's one
of my problems with the defund the the
police movement is that when you defund
police you do things where you take away
resources you take away not having a
real-time crime Center not having enough
officers to where hey maybe those two
officers were the only probably not in
Harris County but what if it's a it's
it's more of a rural place and you have
a situation like this what if these are
the only two deputies that are working
that night and there is no backup it's
only them again like these things that
we want police offic to do to avoid
situations like this it might not be
possible so you know when you when you
do things like defund police you take
away the the different resources and you
know the different trainers to come in
to talk about this kind of stuff and um
again I want less officer involved
shootings um and I'm telling you in this
case um what I think the police officers
could have done differently to avoid it
um again that being said I I do think it
was a legal reasonable officer involved
shooting I don't think that the I don't
think that uh I don't think the police
officers should be criminally charged
and um uh yeah I don't think that they
should be fired I think what they did in
the moment was objectively reasonable um
pulling the trigger in the moment they
did like I I get why they did it um
unless they violated some policy before
they got there was their policy in place
that they were supposed to notify
sergeant that they were supposed to set
a perimeter is there some training or
policy that they violated I think that's
where the that's where the the fix is um
also you know when you defund the the
police we got to talk about mental
health um as well um you're going to
have more mental health crisises um you
know if if police departments and cities
don't put um some emphasis on that as
well uh JS says police are framing
people for making charges for some
people ah I don't know Jay um so Jay so
um the kind of the way that I run this
show and um you know really all the
content I do is I like to I like
specific things I think it's very easy
to say that oh the the police frame
people the police are racist the police
are this and just H like BJ that just
isn't very interesting so if you have a
specific case like hey here's one one
case here's two cases where the police
did this hey Dan can you go ahead and
talk about this yeah let's talk about it
and if the cops messed up I'll tell you
they messed up if the cops committed a
crime I'll say yeah they should probably
be be prosecuted for that um and Jay one
of the things on the show is that um
even after the show ends if you put a
case in the chat I pretty much check it
throughout the week and you know I
probably will go ahead and cover it next
week if you have any ideas for us um so
um so all right so that's going to be
the end of the show that was the last
case that we were going to cover today
um again I want to thank everybody for
being a part of it we got some really
good really good questions um um in here
and I really like the I really like and
enjoy the back and forth um so I think
that the the next one of the next cases
that uh I'm going to go ahead and uh uh
one of the next cases uh Miguel I did I
talked about the acorn case um go ahead
and uh uh rewatch The Show Miguel the
acorn case was the first officer
involved shooting case that I uh covered
it was about 20 minutes into the show
Miguel so go ahead go ahead and watch it
put your comments in the chat Jay thank
you so much um again um definitely go
ahead and uh subscribe to the channel
and um uh uh sub subscribe to the
channel if you haven't already make sure
that that you that you share it and um
you know we like to affect change on
this channel so um definitely go ahead
and call your lawmaker to make sure that
Acorn laws uh Acorn laws are in place
and that acorns are are are regulated
they aren't for for everybody's use some
we see what could happen when there are
rogue acorns all right again my name is
uh Daniel uh go ahead and follow me over
at police law news everywhere um hope
everyone has a great and safe weekend
and we will see you next week
thanks