laughs [Music] [Music] the sergeant Stacy stedham from the administrative investigations unit it's Thursday November 5th 2020 at 2 51 pm I'm conducting an interview with subject of Trooper Fitzpatrick along with his union representative Larry Phillips it's going to be AI 2020 10951 can you see me okay here yes okay I'm gonna go ahead and read the 36 here the internal investigation pre-interview this is your subject of an administrative investigation the known allegations are on Wednesday October 7th 2020 you conducted a traffic stop involving Mr Aaron Wiseman he later filed a formal complaint through Columbus Metro Post Post 25 about concerns regarding the traffic stop specifically he spoke of your own professional demeanor and that you've assaulted him which he sustained injuries as a result you do have a representative here Larry Phillips [Music] okay you are being interviewed as part of an official administrative investigation by the Department of Public Safety you'll be asked questions relating to the performance of your official duties or Fitness for office if you refuse to answer questions completely and or accurately you may be subject to disciplinary action up to and including dismissal statements provided under threat of disciplinary action may not be used against during any subsequent criminal proceedings do you understand all that yes [Music] okay that's right you guys do feel differently foreign [Music] thank you [Music] all right let's go ahead and get started please set your full name for the record Jared Fitzpatrick can you spell that last name for me f-i-t-z p-a-t-r-i-c-k unit number 646 and shift uh 2p to 10p and then what are your days off Monday Tuesday um how long you're going to play with the division since January 10th of 2018. okay let's reflect back to a traffic traffic stop he conducted on October 7 2020 at 17 32 hours were you aware of a complaint that came in to the Columbus Metro post regarding that traffic stop Yes okay can you tell me about that complaint that you received um I pulled the subject deal with some fairly new Rover she failed the UFO a trooper on a traffic stop he had Clear Sight my lights were on the other trooper's lights were on he didn't slow down at no point that I see him even make an attempt to slow down so I conducted a traffic stop with him um upon my Approach he refused to roll the window down I asked him to do it numerous times he cracked the window told me to put on a mask and then rolled the window back up told him numerous times again and roll the window back down he kept shaking his head known because he had his mask on we were out on the interstate so I couldn't hear what he was saying um eventually cracked the window a little bit I asked for his license registration insurance he gave me the registration I asked for the license and then Insurance to rode the window back up kept shaking his head no he was making a lot of statements to which I couldn't hear because of one due to the fact that his window was cracked probably less than an inch to he had a mask so his voice was naturally muffled and three I'm on the interstate with heavy traffic high winds and I even had an ear piece in my ear so normal radio traffic to my ear I advised him numerous times I couldn't hear him he was telling me I need to put on a mask I again asked for his information after numerous times of asking for all his information and after numerous times of him rolling his window back up being argumentative and shaking his head no not obeying my orders I asked him out numerous times I had another Trooper on scene I had him take the lane in case we did have to force him out of his car eventually did get out after numerous more commands um to which he went back to my patrol car I detained him put in the handcuffs and again attempted to explain the situation subsequently he was cited and then he was released on scene okay who was the backup Trooper Trooper Reggie Lawrence post 49 West Jeff post so let's back up just let me ask some questions from you did you get the opportunity to review the video of your traffic stop yes when you approach the vehicle did you explain to Mr Wiseman the reason for the stop I didn't have a full time too because he was argumentative and rolling his window up I was trying to get his information and I couldn't get to the point of trying to explain to him because of his arguing about me wearing a mask did you hear him request you to put your mask on while he was seated in yes I told him I didn't have my mask on me at the car so I didn't have a mask back in my pocket at the time okay so watching the video what could you have done at that point to de-escalate the situation to maybe get make some progress with Mr Wiseman at the vehicle when he's when you guys are going back and forth like you're saying I can't understand what you're saying and what could you have done differently to maybe make some progress with him while you were there if he originally gave me his I mean bare minimum I could have either backed up or we could have talked the back window but I was already up at the car so I was just trying to get his information did he seem to hear you and understand your request for his documents such as the license registration and the insurance yes because when I asked for it he shook his head no and everyone was running back up did he give you the information you originally gave me the registration and only the registration and then I asked him for his license and his insurance and then what happened he wrote his Wonder back up and I had to ask him multiple times again so how many times did you ask him to put his window down I couldn't tell you the exact number without watching and counting but no less than three times could you understand what he was saying when the window is up and communicate with him he had a mask on and with the high winds with his window being rolled up and him having a mask on I had no way of hearing him in traffic going by anything like that and the wind and yes and normal radio traffic with uh dispatch I couldn't I've always thought to him I couldn't hear him and I couldn't understand him at the same time were you attempting to listen to what he was saying I was trying um when his window was up there was there's even if I was not saying anything there's nothing I could do to hear him I could see him making gestures as if he's talking but I can't understand what he's saying when he's a mask on his windows up um why do you think he rolled his window up he stated he was scared of Cody and then did you say thank to him at that point to offer alternative methods to make him feel better about you being up at the car without your mask on out of time now okay did you tell Mr Weisman that you could not hear what he was saying to you yes and you were listening to what he was saying I didn't say I'm listening I said I couldn't hear him I'm trying to listen I was trying to listen but I couldn't hear him I didn't voice to him I'm listening sir but I can't hear you I just stayed to him I can't hear him okay and when he suggested you wear the mask what was your response I told him I didn't have it on me did you have it in the patrol car it was in the patrol car yes you could have went back to the trucker and retrieved The Mask I could have yes is there a reason you didn't um there's officer safety if I walk up to the car and then immediately turn my back to walk back to my car because he staged me to do so um if he originally gave me the information and explained that he scared of coven the measures could have been taken it's been done before where I've gotten at least the license and then went back to my car to get my mask do you think it was clear the fact that it was in the car with his mask on by himself when you approached the car that he was concerned with covid um naturally everybody's concerned with covet I mean I could say yes okay did you think at all with backup unit being there that you could have requested him maybe triple Lawrence keep an eye on this guy while you went back to you super Lawrence arrived he wasn't there immediately when I stopped a car so he wasn't it's not like we stopped a car together he was on a stop when I stopped that car so when exactly he pulled up I couldn't tell you when the traffic stopped but um he was also doing failure move over so he was about a couple car links back watching oncoming traffic as well so it wasn't we weren't doing the traffic stop together it was it just happened to have pulled up and was watching traffic as I was on the traffic stop and then at any point did you asked the trooper for Lawrence to watch traffic for you no it's just we I didn't ask him to it was just we were in the same vicinity and we were just bouncing off each other's traffic stops eating like in my dash cam I was sitting behind him on his traffic stop watching traffic and then when I'm in my traffic stop he was watching traffic and he didn't have to ask he's just watching it just kind of natural thing to do when you're looking for fail to move over okay um do you feel in order to carry out your duties you needed the window all the way down to be able to communicate clearly with it it does not need to be all the way down but I was asking him for his information I wasn't asking to talk I was asking for his information and he would roll his window up and begin to speak with his mask on and there was no way for me to at one point it was cracked but I still couldn't hear him because of the wind because of passing traffic because of the normal radio traffic on my radio with my earpiece and him being muffled enough with his mask I couldn't understand what he was saying with his window being slightly cracked how many times again did you request Wiseman to roll his window down multiple times and did Mr Wiseman could fly would comply and immediately Rose wanted to back up and doing so like he would give his registration rolls when Rebecca and then after numerous times to roll back down and give us other information he would say some and then roll his window back up so at that time were you frustrated it got a little tense yes okay at that point do you think there's anything you could have done again to all offer the alternative measures or de-escalated situation at that point in time like he had his information that you requested he had it yes but he did not provide all of it at what point did he provide everything the driver's license was out of the car that I got everything so like like his insurance um I'm pretty sure I got that out there he got out of the car it was after numerous times of asking him rolling his window up to which at the point I was he was to get out of the car because he's being non-compliant at that point with the lawful orders that I'm getting with the law for traffic stop that I initiated okay so let's think back since you just watched the video so when you go over to the driver's side um of what what happened with that I ordered them out numerous times did you um observe him recording the traffic stop or the cell phone at that point what point did you see him recording himself the first point I don't know but I know when I was at the driver's seat he just basically had his foot up against the window when you were at the what was the driver's side I don't know when he started on the passenger side if he if he was but I do recall him having it when I was on the driver's side you don't recall how many times you asked him to Exodus vehicle I know it was numerous times and then you took your ass about and what did you say I said he's going to get out I'm going to force him out and you know why he did not exit upon your initial request did he say anything about covet at that point um he did explain that he was scared of getting coven um but what he said exactly when I was at the driver's side again I don't know because one his window was up and he started his mask on and now I'm on the driver's side facing traffic so traffic's even closer with high winds passing me so I still can't understand fully what he's saying okay so for him to say that he you guys could hear with his window rolled up that would be inaccurate yes okay and then um while you were at the driver's side with your ass the side of the driver's door what was your intent um I was I had the trooper block off the right lane um and I was going to wait for the trooper to assist me I wasn't going to do it by myself and if he continued to disobey the lawful orders that I was giving I'm asking them out what's lawfully I can it's depending on the situation would have dictated if worse comes to worse his window would have had been broken and forced out of his car that's worst case scenario okay so what point why were you asking him to exit his vehicle at this point due to his non-compliance not having his full information due to him not providing all the information originally when asked and then still not have any full information when I was on the driver's side so what information at the driver's side were you still needing from him um I believe it was the insurance still believe I had his license I could I can't recall when I got his license even watched the video I can't recall when he gave it to me because after the door opened or if I was at the passenger side even watching I couldn't I couldn't tell when exactly I got that but I knew I got it after he was out of the car okay after he was out of the car so when you were at the driver's side did he voluntarily exit his vehicle yes you know what happens once he was out of the vehicle um I walked him back to the front of my patrol car and placed him and handcuffs to be detained was he compliant when you handcuffed him um he was verbally combative um and when I went to play some handcuffs he got a little bit more agitated and he was placing handcuffs and he was nasty argumentative especially with the other Trooper as well that's what did he say um he said a lot of that he did I couldn't get him out of the car I didn't have a reason he accused me of stopping Frisk at one point um he stated how to wear a mask but word for word I couldn't tell you exactly what he said uh did you explain if he was under arrest investigative tension did you explain anything to him at that once he was placed my backseat yes I didn't explain to him what this I did explain to him the whole situation and what was his remarks are coming continued to state that he was just scared of code and then he told me how to wear a mask okay and then your backups your backup even Trooper Lawrence at what point did he intervene intervene as in he didn't really go Hands-On he was basically once I was placed on the subject in handcuffs he was just explaining um that when you're asked out of the vehicle you have to get out because the Supreme Court ruled it and that you know we have dash cams we have flashing lights all that he didn't really go Hands-On whatsoever he just was there as the assistant Trooper you can stop and then he helped Mr Wiseman put his mask back on yes the mask came on I think he tried to put it back over his nose to which it came off and then he put it back on to appease him so it wasn't too low on the on his face okay do you understand the policy for the mask being to understand um I couldn't tell you word for word I know it is required that we wear it like on traffic or not traffic stops um on traffic stops I know it's voluntarily we are going to wear and want traffic stops or not we'll have to wear them on post um in the government buildings any property that states that we have to wear we should abide by that okay do you think it would have helped the situation if you would have retrieved a mask it could have yes or de-escalated by communicating with him about what's going on that is a possibility yes as far as the reason for the Stop and that maybe hey I understand that you are concerned with kobed just to get through all of this and then you issued a citation to him yes correct okay for what fairly move over did you explain the citation yes let's back up real quick to the handcuffs when you were cuffing him was there a lot of force involved when you put the cuffs on them a lot of force I would say no at one point when I went to place him in handcuffs um he naturally pulled away and then blamed his body to which I had to correct him in front of me um I didn't throw him on the hood he it's hard to see it in the dash cam but he basically went on to the hood and I put him in handcuffs I just kept him there putting him in handcuffs it wasn't I didn't slam him on the hood if that's what you're asking so you just you place the handcuffs on him and you did not use excessive force or anything like that the handcuffs were not too tight I was able to put my finger through it I was still able to move it so it wasn't as if it was like cutting circulates or anything like that at that point in time when he's in the backseat of the patrol car or when you're finished with the citation did you explain how a traffic stop could have progressed or been easier if you would have communicated or complied I think yes and what was his response to that um he can it was both mainly he just does not want to get coveted and then he just started saying yes sir to when I was asking the questions or when I was stating to him the situation and then at that point time did you try to de-escalate the situation anymore and explain everything to him I did just sit there said they stop stuttering the stop was de-escalated to which I thought it was necessary now that he understands the whole thing and now that he was educated on the Stop and you know explained the situation I did get him out and then take him out of handcuffs when he was more compliant and I placed him back into his car and then I assume his citation were you aware that Mr Wiseman was injured as a result of the incident injured as in how he set his wrist the customer wanted so tight he had cuffs on his wrist he has a fractured rib and then he is seeking he's been to to get medical treatment he's been to physical therapy um and then also counseling for PTSD because he felt that this was just very traumatic to him how he was treated so is that all of those injuries I have no idea about um the Cuffs weren't tight you can see on the video I put I don't know if you can see me do it but every time I put someone in handcuffs I place my fingers in to make sure that they're not too tight um if he was sitting in there and moving a lot that could cause you know being uncomfortable in his handcuffs but the Cuffs were not too tight I was able to get my fingers through it and I was still able to move them on his wrist but they weren't so loose he could slip his hands out of them so if the way he sat down I don't the fractured ribs or the other injuries I couldn't tell you about because didn't even explain about any of that he did say he asked for hand sanitizer to which I gave him pain I was going to give him the hand sanitizer but then he said he had his own so what about the Band-Aid do you recall him asking for a Band-Aid he did ask for a Band-Aid which I said I didn't have one did he um you don't have one in your first aid kit or anything um I did not have one I should have had one I didn't even think about that to be honest but I didn't have one immediately accessible that wasn't my cruiser so I couldn't tell you if there were still vanities left in that first aid kit okay um did he say anything about injuries at that point asking for a bandage did you think to ask why would you want a Band-Aid hand sanitizer did you think to ask him why he'd want a Band-Aid I did not ask of time no okay I'm [Music] so you do recall him requesting a Band-Aid yes did you render a provide a Band-Aid hand sanitizer I told him I didn't have one immediately accessible and then when I went to get hand sanitizer he said he had his own okay and how did the traffic stop the interaction conclude okay I'm getting a citation and being left to be on his way but he decided to sit there for an excessively long time after the traffic stop to which to instead of avoid reinteraction I let allowed him to sit there because he was safely off the roadway so then what do you mean like he was how long was he sitting there um I couldn't give you an exact time but he didn't immediately pull off did you pull off before he did yes and then did you go back by to patrol the area and see him still sitting there what do you mean by he was there a long time um he when we went back later he wasn't there so I don't know how long he sat after I drove off okay I couldn't answer that question um and then as far as the recording goes when you were placing the cuffs on him and you took his phone and said you could record it he claims that you threw the phone down on the hood I didn't throw it I told him he could record and I said everything on my hood and then I don't know I didn't slam it on the hood I told him I don't mind if you record but you're not gonna be holding anything because I was going to put him he didn't throw it hard on the hood or anything that's my recollection no he just tossed it okay yeah because I want to put words in your mouth I just want to make sure I just want to get your mindset and see what was going on here because he is he did call in a complaint as I mentioned and he um he's claiming injury and that the situation was very traumatic to him so I didn't know what was going on through your mind to know if there's anything you could have done differently there's always maybe using a lot of force when you're putting the cuffs on him right the only reason I had to reposition him back in front of me is because he bladed his body and then naturally pulled away because he was um a bit disobedient when I was going to place in my hand because he was asking why a lot and then it's it's not it's a criminal indicator when someone blames their body towards you when you go to place them in cuffs you never know what could happen someone can take our front end someone could swing I don't know what his intentions are because I don't know him so when he plays your body I want to reposition him to not blade in front of me to which he went on the hood I wouldn't even say I slammed motherhood I don't know if he failed tripped or if it's just the momentum of me putting him in front he lost his footing it was pretty windy out there but my intention was not to slam on the hood it was to reposition him to place him in handcuffs and at that point was there any conversation about what was going on when I was trying but he was arguing the whole time about not wanting to get covered and stating I had no legal grounds to get him out of his car so and that's why I just when I do these interviews is just and you know to get to the bottom of it report report the facts and then it goes on okay so as far as so you had the traffic stop he did Supply you with the information not fully and after numerous numerous commands to do so but he did not give me all the information when requested and it was just the insurance that you still did not have support you asked him I couldn't recall when I got the license but I know it was after he was out of the car I had the license watching the video I had it after he was out of the car I couldn't tell you exactly what he gave it to me and you think that you could justify busting his window at that point in time he's being comply he's being non-obedient he's already failed to give me the information that he's required by law to do so and then the Supreme Court rules that when if an officer has a legal reason to interact with you you have to step out of the vehicle and the reason I was doing that was because of his Disobedience of giving me his information so I believe I would have been Justified worst case scenario but I with that situation I was I was I gave numerous commands for him to exit his vehicle because at one point in time at one point in time you mentioned um they didn't give you his phone number yeah I watched that I got mad at myself because I think I got total vision and focused on that a little too hard other than um I explained it poorly um with not providing all this information that was like the last thing that wasn't even um I don't even think I fully I don't even think about the car I even asked him for his phone number I think I just that was the only thing I had left and I think I just kind of got tunnel vision and focused on it so I explained myself poorly in that aspect okay and that's what you gather just watching the video is that the first you've watched the video no I've watched it numerous times okay and um again you've watched it numerous times as you're saying is there anything you could have done differently always as far as communicating de-escalate in a situation yes would you put a mask on if the situation arise again uh as long as I have their license I will put them out I can I I carry the mass now on my duty belt so yes I will have one more available for future interactions okay is there anything else you would like to add that I haven't asked that you think is the investigation Larry are you required to wear a mask when you go up to a patrol car no is that according to the highway Patrol's policies or directives yes is the driver required to give you his driver's license yes it required to give you his information yes did he do so no does him being worried about covert exempt him from any requirements um giving you his information or getting out of the car when he's ordered yourself no [Music] at the time did the driver say anything to you about having injured ribs no did you see any blood or anything where he was bleeding to need a Band-Aid uh no you're asked about things you could have done differently were there things the driver could have done differently yes if he had done things differently by doing what he's required to do would this situation have happened yes it's happened before [Music] have you received training for the name of this incident uh yes I had two separate trainings at the Academy for de-escalation the first was a full day with Sergeant acres and the second was a half day with Lieutenant Harris of the academy other than asking for the Mandate did the driver tell you his ribs were hurt or anything like that no did you assault this driver no put his cups on too tight no in your opinion did you do anything to him that would cause him to have PTSD no no I have nothing further okay let's have one more thing to add so regarding the allegation as far as his complaint um you're all professional Demeter and the fact that you assaulted him would you agree with that with a comment of that allegation I do not believe I assaulted him and I did not believe I believe with the situation with him being combative with the high wind and the loud traffic I could have come off us louder but with high winds with high traffic being outside on the interstate with his window up I'm going to be naturally louder so if unprofessionalizing me yelling at him being outside on the interstate you're going to be living more louder than you would be right here in the office or if we were even on a city street I don't think I've had to yell at anybody on a city street so far even being if someone wants to argue I would disagree with the fact that I assaulted him and I would disagree I would state with what the union stated that if he had provided his information originally the entire situation would have been avoided if he had followed the law what he's required to do when put over by a peace officer okay and then to follow up on the fact that you went to training was that related to this or okay what kind of training was it it was de-escalation training I had my sergeant Acres where we did review the video we did go over um this specific video yes okay yes yes okay I mean whatever how we could do things differently um different techniques such as verbal commands or even de-escalation uh tips and training that we would overseen with uh another day with Lieutenant Harris okay right is everything you told me today turn after to the best of your knowledge yes anything else just just warm where he kept requesting you to go back and get a mask would that put you or compromise your officer safety that can um because I didn't have his information I don't know who he is and I can't judge based off just appearances or the car you drive or even the violation that I stopped you for so without at least being able to identify him if he asked me to go back to my car you can run the risk of one him fleeing to him reaching for a firearm while walking back or even searching my passenger seat for a mask but say if it fell on the ground if I the minute I take my eyes off him it becomes officer safety and he could do something nefarious because I don't know who he is I don't know what his intentions are and I have asked him dictating what I should do on a traffic stop he's taking control of the traffic stop do you know if he had any weapons in the vehicle no do people who are upset at officers for you're being stopped or particularly down this Covert age you know people are upset about things would that potentially puts you at risk where he's upset and does have access to firearm it is a possibility yes brother okay with um as far as the mass goes with you not offering to put a mask on or anything else is that just you using your authority to be in charge of the situation in control of it to say you know what I don't have to get wear a mask I'm not going to I don't care what you say was there anything just being I would say no authoritative I would say no it was him dictating a traffic stop and him trying to if he I have done it before where people ask for me to put it on and I've asked hey give me your license and I'll go back and put it on I've done that numerous times in the past it was him telling me I'm not giving you the information until you put on a mask is and then him telling me to go put on a mask it was where it becomes an officer's safety because I can't identify him I don't know his what his intentions are so you have had in the past somebody request yes you wear a mask because same thing they're worried about yeah I normally have a mask on me or in my pocket this was happened to me just be a once in a occurrence I've put them on four requests but bare minimum I would like to identify the person um driving so if I do go back to the car or I'll get their information go back and then when I reapproach the vehicle I have my mask on to appease them it's happened what about when you had them in cuffs and Trooper Lawrence was there because you've got your mask on at that point because there was another concern with as far as him in the interview saying that when you got him out of the car then you were right in his face once you were cuffing him and so forth because I put on a mask but in the it was a stressful situation I probably didn't focus on it to be honest but it wasn't it wasn't a I'm a State Trooper you're a civilian you do as I say I just it probably slipped my mind due on the totality of the circumstances of the entire stop and the situation and just one more thing as far as him being in cuffs did you was he mirandized was he arrested under arrest at that point he was not under arrest he was being detained at the moment and I wasn't asking any criminal questions that would incriminate him so now at the time he was not mirandize and then lastly is everything you told me today true and acted the best of your knowledge yes okay anything okay you mentioned that it is voluntarily according to Highway Patrol directive whether you wear a mask or not traffic stops yes is there anything in that direction that requires you that if a driver requests that you put on a mask that you have to put on a mask not to my regulation I couldn't say that's all happen Okay the interview will conclude at 3 23 pm